An update to the WI Announcement thread. My DH just got a reply to his application to join them.

A friend sent me this update she received in an email from the WI so I'm posting it here for info (sorry if already posted).

The WI works to connect, empower and support women, and we are committed to treating all our members with respect, dignity and understanding. In light of the Supreme Court ruling and interim update from the EHRC, we are taking time to consider carefully the implications for our organisation. While we consider and understand the impact of the judgement, our existing inclusion policies continue to apply. We encourage all members to continue supporting each other with respect and care at this time, as we have done throughout our 110 year history.

This is from their website today, 15th May 2025, several weeks on from the SC judgement. Has it changed? I'm not sure where the other poster shared this info.

Surely this is all now moot after the SC judgement. Transwomen are men in law and so if the WI allow them into the organisation, they are either breaking the law or they have to remove "Women" from their name.

They can't be that stupid. Their policy, accessible to the public on their website, is illegal.

Have the WI always welcomed trans women or did it all start with Petra Wenham?

I remember reading about that story too, @UtopiaPlanitia. The entitlement of that man was off the scale.

I read that article years ago, not sure if it was the USA or UK but the women-only group used to meet regularly in a pub. The trans-identified male turned up to a pub meeting and made them feel uncomfortable so they moved the following meeting to being held in the home of one of the women.

The male found out the location of the meeting and arrived at the house demanding to be allowed entry. The group of women said no and he called the police saying he was being discriminated against because he was a woman who was being prevented from attending a women’s-only meeting.

Police turned up at the address and told him that the women didn’t have to let him into the house because it was someone’s private home and that the police couldn’t force the women to let him enter the house.

I remember thinking it was bonkers at the time but it shows that certain men will stop at nothing to get what they want.

I did a search for the story but couldn’t find it and I’m fairly sure it was Ovarit that I read it on first but Ovarit has shut down.

So on one page they say men can’t join, but on another they say they can… !

Or <ahem> vice versa

"Transgender women are welcome to join the WI and to participate in any WI activities in the same way as any other woman. [My emphasis]"
Well that's just incoherent, illogical and wrong, isn't it? "Sheep are welcome to join in the same way as any othere wolves...."

In FAQ, on the National Federation site, just found this.

Forgive me...my head is spinning a bit here.

As quoted by @ArabellaScott
"A person who was assigned female at birth but who identifies as non-binary is able to join the SWI. This is because they fall within our women only exemption as they were assigned female at birth."

So a transwoman should therefore not be able to join the WI because they were (very likely to have been) registered male when born? So their application should be denied at the first hurdle surely? I fail to see how they can wiggle out of being a women's only group if this is their policy?🤔

(But their 'get out clause' is that they don't check someone's sex on joining...)

I'm not sure the WI really means that, though. Because of the "living as a woman" bollocks. While they say "if you are a woman" i din't think they honestly mean transmen who have totally altered their appearance so that they do seem to be men.

I don't believe they would want someone who looks like Buck Angel in there with the Jam & Jerusalem brigade. Otherwise they shouldn't have issues with other manly appearing people, like OPs DH.

But it is an interesting thought experiment.

Of course you are, because you are living, and you are a woman. It would be impossible not to live as a woman when you are one.

As a transman, you'd be trying to pass as a man by masculinising your appearance and dressing and acting in a way associated with men rather than women, but only women have to make this conscious effort to pass as men, just as only men have to make a conscious effort to pass as women. By definition, to pass as something you must not be that thing.

You'd only know the world as a woman trying to get the male experience. You'd never actually live as a man any more than I can live as a cat, no matter how much fur I wear, how much I miaow or how much wet food I demand.

In theory yes... but "living as a woman" is not a well defined concept even when it's women doing it 😀 I think the law allows women who have medicated for tranision to be excluded in some circumstances but I am not sure that WI would be one of those circumstances. Grey area.

And yes, legally transmen should be able to join the WI, and transwomen should not.

but not under the WI rules, and tbh that is ok for me. If you are a transman you are not "living as a woman".

I expect the men who say they are woman would leave because it's no longer affirming their desires ... and women who know that they are women will leave because it no longer fulfils their requirements.

Isn't it the first rule of running an enterprise?: don't alienate your core demographic.

If it became the People's Institute I expect the men who say they are woman would leave because it's no longer affirming their desires.

Your argument would have more force if the WI did not also run campaigns and fundraisers on issues that affect women. But it does e.g. www.thewi.org.uk/campaigns

Transwomen (men) don't just follow the women's lead. If they can join they can influence the future direction of the WI. Once you allow men to influence campaigns and fundraisers the focus can shift towards further male intrusion into women's space and control of that space, outside the WI as well as inside.

And yes, legally transmen should be able to join the WI, and transwomen should not. The WI could even be a force for good supporting gender non-conforming women and women who have medicated especially regretters and detransitioners. But it can't help those women while it is following its current line, because that would mean admitting that saying you're a man and taking testosterone (etc) doesn't make you into a man, and neither does the other way round.

thanks for the clarification. I will ask MN to remove that post

Of course it's impossible to find on Google because 'man follows women home' turns up an endless list.

No, Sarah's case (court date coming up later this year, gardening still in progress) was a man in the 'female' counselling group despite there being both men's and trans groups available. The rape crisis centre refused to provide a truly women-only session alongside the existing mixed ones. There's no suggestion he followed her home.

There doesn’t have to be harm in terms of someone getting physically hurt

thank you, @SidewaysOtter - this cannot be said enough. it is not (always) about physical harms.