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Original poster

An update to the WI Announcement thread. My DH just got a reply to his application to join them.

966 replies

Another2Cats · 12/05/2025 19:49

This is not a thread about a thread, but recently there was a thread about the Womens Institute announcement that they would not be implementing the SC ruling anytime soon.

I was reading the thread at the time and, entirely jokingly, I suggested to my DH that he should apply to join the WI and see what they say.

So he did just that (he totally gets the GC point of view) and I posted about this at the time:

Another2Cats · 08/05/2025 19:45

I just got my DH to send an email to them:

Hello,

My name is Xxxx (very obviously masculine name). I just read your transgender policy and understand that you accept men.

I am a man and would like to join the local WI group in [xxxx city] (the nearest branch for me is in yyyy [suburb of xxxx city]).

Should I just turn up next Wednesday evening and sign up?

I'm really waiting with bated breath to see what sort of response there is.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5330297-womens-institute-announcement?reply=144143149
.

Well, it turns out that they sent a response this lunchtime.

This is their reply (although with contact details redacted):

Good morning,

Thank you for your enquiry. Our policy states that “WI membership is open to all women who live as women, including transgender women.” If you fit within this statement, you will be more than welcome to attend. I am afraid the WI is not open to men.

Kind regards,

[Redacted]

[Name Redacted]
Federation Secretary
[Two cities - well, a city and a town - redacted] Federation of WIs CIO
[Address redacted]
[Telephone number redacted]
Office hours: Tues, Weds, Thurs 9am – 1pm

Please note the new email address – [Redacted]
.

I don't know, is this something that DH should take up with the EHRC now that he has it in writing?

Women’s institute announcement | Mumsnet

Published earlier today.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5330297-womens-institute-announcement

OP posts:
Thread gallery
32
yint · 22/05/2025 20:16

PriOn1 · 22/05/2025 20:09

More wrong than the WI allowing in men who claim they are women?

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Equally wrong.

PriOn1 · 22/05/2025 20:09

yint · 22/05/2025 19:54

This feels very wrong, even if he's just doing it to make a point.

More wrong than the WI allowing in men who claim they are women?

yint · 22/05/2025 19:54

This feels very wrong, even if he's just doing it to make a point.

ThatCyanCat · 22/05/2025 18:30

littlebilliie · 22/05/2025 18:25

In 2020 I called my leader and it was the blurb about being kind and perhaps not the organisation for someone with such views 🙄

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Men who pretend to be women had more rights to women's spaces than women.

What will be made of this collective stupidity in future?

littlebilliie · 22/05/2025 18:25

Canibebovered · 22/05/2025 18:01

While you’re at it, can you also ask them about their anti-bullying policy?
You seem to be doing far better than getting somewhere than I ever did

The vice chair who I spoke to at the time regarding it said they never actually asked why people leave the WI.

Having followed a few posts on here about why people leave the WI a lot of the time is to do with bullying

Anyhow, well done, looking forward to an update

In 2020 I called my leader and it was the blurb about being kind and perhaps not the organisation for someone with such views 🙄

Canibebovered · 22/05/2025 18:01

While you’re at it, can you also ask them about their anti-bullying policy?
You seem to be doing far better than getting somewhere than I ever did

The vice chair who I spoke to at the time regarding it said they never actually asked why people leave the WI.

Having followed a few posts on here about why people leave the WI a lot of the time is to do with bullying

Anyhow, well done, looking forward to an update

TempestTost · 22/05/2025 17:28

Oh gosh OP, that is very interesting.

He should NOT ask them what living as a woman means, however.

He needs to pointedly ask if they are aware this is sex discrimination and that he will have to consult his lawyer if they don't want to correct their error.

cheesecakewrestler · 22/05/2025 17:10

Merrymouse · 22/05/2025 12:18

Does your DH actually want to join the WI? Could this be a stumbling point?

If so does anyone actually want to join the masons?

www.ugle.org.uk/gender-reassignment-policy

I can see that wanting to join helps the cause, but is it relevant? Women's groups have been targeted for years by TRAs trying to infiltrate, not because they want to be there, but because they wanted to impose their 'right'.
I'm still getting over listening to the La Leche podcast on the Inciteful Sisters, telling the story of a man in a frock coming into a mother's breastfeeding support group and sitting in the corner with an erection.

Gundogday · 22/05/2025 16:55

Well done @PencilPleat

PencilPleat · 22/05/2025 16:10

I have just emailed the WI asking for clarification and making it clear that if it becomes a mixed sex membership I will be leaving.

I have been very unhappy about the 'inclusive' embrace of trans women but as a new member was wary of rocking the boat (and it hasn't been an issue at my local branch......yet) but I feel a bit bolder since the SC decision.

littlebilliie · 22/05/2025 12:59

I feel I need to contact my old WI for a response on whether men will be in attendance as I’m seeking a women only organisation

CatietteX · 22/05/2025 12:57

Egg pun there, perhaps? 🐣

Fascinating to watch this one evolve, the Cats…

senua · 22/05/2025 12:53

"Isn't it usually the case in these things that you have to follow procedure"
Yes, you're quite right, and that's what we're doing.
I can see that I was trying to teach my grandmother to suck eggs. Apologies.Smile
Crack on!💪

Merrymouse · 22/05/2025 12:42

I also think it’s unfair to exclude some boys from Brownies or Guides if they are mixed sex organisations.

Merrymouse · 22/05/2025 12:40

Another2Cats · 22/05/2025 12:35

"Does your DH actually want to join the WI?"

Yes.

"Could this be a stumbling point?"

No, he has a genuine interest in a couple of activities that are regularly run (that I have no interest in at all) by a nearby WI group. He was aware that they did these activities but he was also aware that, as a man, he could not join.

Show quote history

Good!

I can understand why men would be genuinely interested in joining the WI.

Original poster
Another2Cats · 22/05/2025 12:35

Merrymouse · 22/05/2025 12:18

Does your DH actually want to join the WI? Could this be a stumbling point?

If so does anyone actually want to join the masons?

www.ugle.org.uk/gender-reassignment-policy

"Does your DH actually want to join the WI?"

Yes.

"Could this be a stumbling point?"

No, he has a genuine interest in a couple of activities that are regularly run (that I have no interest in at all) by a nearby WI group. He was aware that they did these activities but he was also aware that, as a man, he could not join.

OP posts:
cheesecakewrestler · 22/05/2025 12:20

On Trans Woman’s Hour yesterday they had Baroness Faulkner saying organisations should be complying with the law immediately, and to take their own legal advice if they thought they had complexities, the example she gave was care workers and care receivers. I don’t think this is a particularly complex situation for the WI. They must’ve known it was coming, and should’ve been convening the day after the judgement, so relatively far down the line in terms of rewriting their rules and effecting action.
many organisations have opted to ‘wait for this’ ‘wait for that’ dragging their heels like a kid who doesn’t want to go to bed. Sadly, women will need to crowdfund to haul them through court before organisations get on top of it.

I’m going to say that public sector and charity (the most captured) will almost have to be forced to do it, private sector will just get on with it.

HermioneWeasley · 22/05/2025 12:18

@Another2Cats big thanks to you and your husband

the WI are craven dick panderers

Merrymouse · 22/05/2025 12:18

Does your DH actually want to join the WI? Could this be a stumbling point?

If so does anyone actually want to join the masons?

www.ugle.org.uk/gender-reassignment-policy

Original poster
Another2Cats · 22/05/2025 12:10

senua · 22/05/2025 10:48

Don't get me wrong, I fully support what your DH is doing. But ...

Isn't it usually the case in these things that you have to follow procedure, you have to fully exhaust Step A before you can move on to Step B. If your DH takes this to court, will they throw it out as being premature because the WI procedure hasn't gone through all its stages yet.
Also, the EHRC was going to send something to the Govt quicksmart after the ruling but they have rowed back on that. They are currently consulting. Won't WI use this as a "we are waiting on Govt / EHRC guidance before we can act" get-out clause?

"Isn't it usually the case in these things that you have to follow procedure"

Yes, you're quite right, and that's what we're doing.

The correct procedure is laid out in the court Practice Direction that covers Pre-Action Conduct and Protocols.

The first step is generally referred to as a "letter before action". This should give the defendant sufficient information to understand the claimant's position and what their claim is. The Practice Direction says:

"(a) the claimant writing to the defendant with concise details of the claim. The letter should include the basis on which the claim is made, a summary of the facts, what the claimant wants from the defendant, and if money, how the amount is calculated;"

DH did that a week ago giving the WI 28 days to either accept him as a member or to change their rules.
.

The Practice Direction then says that the Defendant should reply within a reasonable time:

"(b) the defendant responding within a reasonable time – 14 days in a straight forward case and no more than 3 months in a very complex one. The reply should include confirmation as to whether the claim is accepted and, if it is not accepted, the reasons why, together with an explanation as to which facts and parts of the claim are disputed and whether the defendant is making a counterclaim as well as providing details of any counterclaim;"

The WI's reply provided none of the required detail. So DH wrote back to ask if they were going to engage with the required process.

He also said that if they did not engage within 14 days of his original complaint then he will commence a claim.

This is a straightforward case of sex discrimination and there is no reason why they would need more than 14 days to reply. Please note, this is just to reply, not anything about actually doing anything as a result of the complaint.
.

"...they are currently consulting. Won't WI use this as a "we are waiting on Govt / EHRC guidance before we can act" get-out clause?"

Well, they may try, but the EHRC have clearly stated that the law is the law today and the Supreme Court said that it always has been the law since 2010.

OP posts:
JasmineAllen · 22/05/2025 12:01

ThatCyanCat · 22/05/2025 08:06

And I'd be happy to contribute to a crowdfund.

and me :)

JamieCannister · 22/05/2025 11:30

senua · 22/05/2025 10:48

Don't get me wrong, I fully support what your DH is doing. But ...

Isn't it usually the case in these things that you have to follow procedure, you have to fully exhaust Step A before you can move on to Step B. If your DH takes this to court, will they throw it out as being premature because the WI procedure hasn't gone through all its stages yet.
Also, the EHRC was going to send something to the Govt quicksmart after the ruling but they have rowed back on that. They are currently consulting. Won't WI use this as a "we are waiting on Govt / EHRC guidance before we can act" get-out clause?

I am curious to hear a legal opinion on this. I am sure there is an element of truth in what you say, but on the other hand they can't say "our complaint process takes ten years, get lost". Where is the balance between giving them reasonable time, and them taking the micky?

Also, to what extent does the EHRC guidance come into this? However clear the case was, is there not an argument that an org. that says "we will make a decision shortly, when we have proper guidance, which is coming" will be OK (caveat - were a woman to sue due to, say, an assault by a man in a single sex space that happened today, pre-EHRC guidance, I can't imagine the org would have much of a defence, but that is a little different from am org trying to get it's policies together).

Annascaul · 22/05/2025 11:11

Another2Cats · 22/05/2025 07:34

So, a very small update.

A quick recap; a week ago DH sent a letter before action to the WI giving them 28 days to accept him as a member or change their membership rules.

They replied yesterday. Well, it wasn't much of a reply. Essentially they said we're going to ignore your letter before action and we might condescend to consider your complaint eight weeks from now:

Dear [XXX]

Thank you for contacting NFWI.

I am writing to acknowledge the formal complaint you have submitted regarding the NFWI membership criteria. I can confirm your complaint has been opened and will be investigated by NFWI within the 8 week timeframe where possible as outlined within the policy.

I will be in contact in due course, attached is the NFWI Complaints policy for reference.

So, instead of engaging in any meaningful way with the complaint they've just kicked it into the long grass, presumably in the hope that it will all go away.

Well, my DH doesn't work like that.

So he replied to them asking if that is the only reply they have to the letter before action? He went on to say that unless they engaged meaningfully with the substantial complaint in the letter before action within seven days then he would have to assume that they had no intention at all of dealing with the matter. He would then commence a claim.

Which means that I'll have to start getting the Particulars of Claim sorted out over the weekend (with some help from DH).

Perhaps they'll take DH a bit more seriously once they have the claim form?

I salute your dh. He’s one of the good ones.

loveyouradvice · 22/05/2025 10:54

Huge congrats Team Cats - cheering you on every inch of the way... So brilliant you are doing this

senua · 22/05/2025 10:48

Don't get me wrong, I fully support what your DH is doing. But ...

Isn't it usually the case in these things that you have to follow procedure, you have to fully exhaust Step A before you can move on to Step B. If your DH takes this to court, will they throw it out as being premature because the WI procedure hasn't gone through all its stages yet.
Also, the EHRC was going to send something to the Govt quicksmart after the ruling but they have rowed back on that. They are currently consulting. Won't WI use this as a "we are waiting on Govt / EHRC guidance before we can act" get-out clause?