An update to the WI Announcement thread. My DH just got a reply to his application to join them.

I’m a woman but am I womaning enough to qualify as living as a woman? I am wearing trousers and a jumper, oh and socks with sandals…that sounds quite mannish to me. On the other hand I’ve got lipstick on and I’ve just picked some roses, is that womanly enough? Or merely Cecil Beaton in his garden?

Yes. And I know from the double-yellow parking on lodge meeting nights that I couldn't rely on police backup if 'less than patient' took a sharper form than just being told to go away.

Plus the EA doesn't directly apply in NI.

It's rather like the difference between men forcing their way into lesbian groups, and women entering gay saunas or the Hampstead pool. The men just told them to leave. Because men are not sexually vulnerable to a woman in their space, they hold all the power and know it, and so does everyone else.

Yeah, the difference between that and the WI is my local Lodge has some members who would be less than patient with a woman trying to join.

I think it would be unsafe, frankly.

That's just as illegal.

Women who have or haven't undergone gender reassignment are still just women.

You can't have some women and not other women.

I can't wait for the court cases 🍿

"I declare you have undergone gender reassignment"

'undergone gender reassignment'.

Oh let's pin that one down, what does that mean?

What degree of surgery?
What degree of medication?
Started when and to what affect?
Does personal appearance come into this?
Or are we down to a name and a gas bill?

The whole thing is fecking ridiculous.

And 'undergone'..... as a woman whose body has had a bloody hard time and distorted a lot via medical issues, if other women can be masons and we're adding up empathy points then I feel equally entitled.

I'm tempted to try the Freemasons - the Lodge is only a stroll away. But it's all rather more legislatively complex over here, so wouldn't be the best test case.

I'm definitely not going to try getting into the Orange Order (no idea what their policy is, or even if they have one; all I can find is that 10 years ago they wouldn't let TW into the women's lodge, so I suspect their 'men only' really is single sex).

A quick thought - did your husband actually go along to a meeting and try to join and get formally refused? You will likely want to be able put in your statement of claim that you went along chequebook in hand and filled in an application form which was rejected. Did he do that?

Not I!
Unless it's as a Freemoosen.

Right. Which of us is going to apply to become a freemason then?

Freemasons also allow transwomen if they were already a member before they transitioned. So the only people not allowed are the regular women.

My grandfather was a Freemason, I've got the paraphernalia in the wardrobe behind me. He joined so he could attend the Ladies' Nights.

In other words the Freemasons is now a mixed sex organisation and we can all join.

I went to look at the Freemasons and they say

“A candidate for admission to Freemasonry under UGLE must be a man. Should a person who has undergone gender reassignment and has become a man apply to become a Freemason then his application must be processed in the same way as for any other male candidate.”

It's not wrong. It's entirely right to question why some men are allowed to join and some men aren't. It is discrimination and it needs to be addressed. There is no reason why OP's DH should be excluded from an activity he wants to do if other men are included.

Yes, that’s pretty much what I got. It was a single sentence somewhere near or on the membership card. Vice chair when questioned was absolutely sure they had a good policy. I sent them a copy of the one we had in the school I worked in which was pages and pages and suggested it was about time they updated the WI one. Never heard anything more, did spend a good time delving around their portal for committee members at one point when I had a logon. Not surprised to find nought. And I expect it’s still the same today.

Unfortunately, many people need to make these gestures to ‘make a point’ and to illustrate how ludicrous the situation is.

For example, women recently swam in a ‘men only’ pool in Hampstead, after the council continued to allow trans women (ie men) in the ‘women only ‘ pool.

What, exactly, “feels wrong”? Why would “just making a point” make it any less wrong? What point do you think he’s making?

Quite - and as a mixed sex organisation I would expect many of the TRAs to lose interest. Because it was only fulfilling while they weren't supposed to be there wasn't it? Maybe they will need to have some meetings/sessions that are women only and then others that are inclusive?

If it's wrong for Mr Cats to try to join then they can simply say they are single sex and women only.

If they're not single sex then it's wrong to allow some men to join but exclude this man who just wants to join the asparagus growing/blacksmithing group or whatever it is he's interested in.

They need to pick a lane, cos sitting in the middle and flapping about being kind while being absolute arseholes to women is not going to wash any longer.

More power to you OP. Keep us posted.

Not equal in the slightest.