BBC series I Kissed a Boy decision "homophobic in the extreme" - LGB Alliance

The transman, Lars, in the IKAB second series has come out to all of the cast on camera. However Lars wasn’t out when being kissed as a ‘gay man’ by another gay man in the official dating ‘match’ made by the producers at the start of the series.
A match requires two contestants to meet and kiss on camera, usually without speaking first, to start the first show of the series off. So that was deceptive on purpose of the match partner, which is a very poor example of consent for the BBC to show.

The rest of the cast have so far since accepted Lars the TM without question, even including on questions of sexual practice like Lars saying that they are a top or can top. IKAB is all about men celebrating their same sex attraction to each other, then why has there been no space for anyone to ask about why they’ve made it a mixed sex cast, as though it’s not OK to care if your partner is male or female? Or has male or female body parts?

Including this transman in a show around dating, romantic and sexual relationships is very #nodebate which is totally inappropriate in personal relationships. Always, consent must be paramount. Acceptance without question or whatever that gaslighty phrase used to be, is totally misplaced.

@dubaichocolate
I'm told there are transmen on Grindr. Not as many as there are TIMS on lesbian sites, but there are some pushing the Men with vaginas narrative.
Maybe some are successful because it takes all sorts and not all men who say they are gay are gay.
The gay men I know are of the :eww vagina, no thanks: kind.

The difference is, gay men are not going to be bullied or forced to accept that 'some gays have man pussy, and get their saunas/clubs/venues closed down if they don't submit. They'll just tell them to FRO.

You are right and I am wrong (also apologies @dubaichocolate )

The Eve/charlie story was hideous.
The entire series was a car crash, I bailed out and couldn't watch until the end.

I may have also been getting mixed up with the hideous Dempsey/Statler drama in 90 Day F UK.

I don't watch TV generally, apart from dramas on catch up/Netflix etc and have never been into reality dating stuff.

I seem to have developed a curiosity about how relationships and dating are portrayed on TV.

Naked Attraction and Dating Naked UK ? Anyone?

I've seen a few episodes of NA that featured non-binary and trans identified people along with the usual participants.
I'm not a fan though, and it's not because I'm a prude, I just don't particularly enjoy seeing people showcasing their genitals.

The arguments in favour are that it normalises naked bodies but I find the whole show rather creepy.

Such a wonderful letter...such a shame that it needed to be written...

Apparently the viewing figures for IKAB for first series were dire, but BBC in their wisdom decided to squander licence payers money on a second series.

Has anyone watched an episode yet? I'll have to give it a go.......I imagine it will be most interesting.

I've never heard of Ella but after watching that clip you'd have to be blind drunk not to think at the very least there was something very, very odd about them.

Absolutely! The gay scene is testosterone central......and not for the faint hearted. I cannot imagine a woman, no matter how masculine looking, could survive in it - let alone be accepted in it.

@Slothtoes
I’d say it’s really unfair on the TM too because the men in the show are not going to want to date that person. So putting themselves through that rejecting experience is really going to confirm a lot of anxieties that the TM will have. In a super public real names used kind of way. It’s creating the potential for a lot of trouble. The producers should be really concerned about fucking with reality contestants’ mental health like that.

That's not going to happen though

Reality TV shows are as based in reality as I am thinking I sound like Mary J Blige when I go to karaoke night.

They're scripted and produced to an agenda and there is no way the trans man will be humiliated and rejected.
If anything, they might be rejected by one of the men, but there will be another man who will step in and say TMAM and all will be well in the world again.

Ok, I have no idea, but I'm willing to bet money on it panning out just like that.

There is no way they will vilify a trans person on TV like that. They'll vilify the dude who says he's not into vagina, because 'some men have vaginas'
We all know the script by now, well the script for lesbians.

We'll see

I thought Charlie went to the stag do and Eve to the hen.

But they were both toxic as all get out anyway.

@dubaichocolate

In MAFS the women and men are in separate groups to begin with and actually in the last series the long haired woman of the lesbian match was in with the men and the short haired woman was in with the women. But normally I’d agree with you.

I just typed out a reply about how you're wrong because I've watched all of them (not something I'm proud of but it helps provide some distraction during insomnia nights and some light relief from the heavy day to day stuff) I thought thought hang on. Let me go and check. And you are right. I'd completely forgotten about Zoe and Jenna.
But..in my defense, that was series #7, the last series was #9 and featured Eve and Charlie, who are the couple I described in my earlier comment.
Who knows what they have in store for #10.

I'd love to see a trans inclusive anything in the mainstream media which was fundamentally based upon honesty. What a breath of fucking fresh air that would be. As well as genuinely progressive.

Has there been a trans inclusive dating show that has ended well for everyone involved?

Its like theyve said, 'well, we tried lying to the contestants, to the audience, to the trans person, now lets just be honest to everyone and see who we can fuck up this time'.

Because they put the lesbian with long hair with the women. And the one with short hair with the men (even though the short hair is the only remotely 'masculine' thing about her). Same with gay men.
So all they end up doing is going along with outdated homophobic and sexist stereotypes that there is a woman role and a male role in same sex relationships.

In MAFS the women and men are in separate groups to begin with and actually in the last series the long haired woman of the lesbian match was in with the men and the short haired woman was in with the women. But normally I’d agree with you.

@OuterSpaceCadetin Mr Menno’s video he mentions a transman being used in the advertisement of I think a gay sauna. Some transmen do go to saunas, with mixed results unsurprisingly.

Yes, I think this is probably a good issue to be covered on mainstream TV, especially when the target audience is the gay men who’ve been so vocal in vilifying TERFs for their transphobia all these years.

The blank stare I often get from people when I explain how GII damages women (and especially lesbians) is far more prevalent among gay men, presumably as most straight men will have interacted with women on an intimate basis and will have at least some inkling of the sex differences that might make life more challenging for women.

Many of my gay male friends simply don’t have women on their radar at all in their daily lives, so they can’t even begin to comprehend how, say, drag queens are offensive to women, nor how calling each other “she” to disparage another man also disparages all women. They’re in their own little bubble (but are obviously very happy to scream out of it towards TERFs…).

I’m glad LGBA wrote the letter, but I’m also quite glad this is actually being shown as it’s a perfect forum to create some real tension and debate.

All the gay men I know have taken part, to a greater or lesser extent, in a sex scene which is completely different to the world of hetero sex. Even those who are married often still have some contact with this 100% male, seemingly consequence free, dick-centric scene. I don't understand how transmen are accepted into this? They sound like scenarios which could be extremely dangerous for women for a variety of reasons. Are transmen really hanging about London commons or those cliffs in Brighton waiting for a casual encounter? Or going to chemsex parties? Or meeting couples off Grindr? Are they really sat in the pools at saunas that I'd worry about being impregnated by for so much as being in the same room?!

All this.

One of the worst insults in this is the parallel one as Women's Hour continually calling upon men to talk about women's issues. A plain ordinary boring gay man isn't enough, the best and most exciting kind of gay man is a straight woman.

Hmm yeah I know. My lesbian friends feel particularly betrayed by gay men jumping on the trans wagon and leaving them to suffer. One of them has an older cousin who helped lots of men during the aids crisis and she is very hurt that they've basically washed their hands of what has been happening to lesbians.

It’s crazy to me that anyone doesn’t see the homophobia here. ‘Oh, you fancy men not women? Well how about butch women? This woman has a plaid shirt and a junior ‘tache, do you fancy her? Are you normal now?’

I too am very glad LGBA exist to advocate for gay men and Lesbians

Just read LGB Alliance’s letter- excellent. I am so glad that they exist

FFS. This is a nice lighthearted specifically gay male dating series. Billed as the first of its kind. With a specifically lesbian follow-up dating series as well. Which was truly groundbreaking, given lesbian invisibility in wider popular culture.

It’s really unfair and homophobic that a TM has been cast to take the place of a gay man, putting their personal validation wishes over everything else. TM are not gay men. They’re not men. I’d say it’s really unfair on the TM too because the men in the show are not going to want to date that person. So putting themselves through that rejecting experience is really going to confirm a lot of anxieties that the TM will have. In a super public real names used kind of way. It’s creating the potential for a lot of trouble. The producers should be really concerned about fucking with reality contestants’ mental health like that. I thought they’d brought in new guidelines after the awful suicides of former Love Island contestants. And how unfair and stressful this will be for the other contestants particularly if the TM status of that individual is not made clear upfront to everyone.

Obviously any who feels excluded from LGB can campaign for there to be a ‘I kissed a transman show’ or ‘I kissed a transwoman’ show, great , if the production company can get the contract to make it. Great. But until then, this was incredibly homophobic casting decision and seems likely to cause extreme stress to the participants.

This all reminds me of the Guardian Blind Date, when a lesbian was set up with a TIM; she very diplomatic about it, but very obviously unhappy about being duped.

I think this is likely due your average lesbian-identifying TIM not being the effeminate or semi-passing type that is being used to convince the public there's nothing to worry about.
Seeing a straight man try to blend in amongst all the young gay women in the show would be too revealing. Physical differences alone would be exaggerated and I suspect the dynamic would also demonstrate their maleness.

@HaddyAbrams I haven't seen that one. I've certainly never commented on the loveliness (or not) of my vagina. The images of post surgery that I've seen have been anything but lovely-perhaps Ella has been lucky.
WRT Shane, I don't recall him ever making the usual raging TRA statements and has never cared for pronouns. Also doesn't take hormones or is considering surgery. Also hasn't made any statements following the SC ruling or mentioned terfs to my knowledge.
He seems to be focussing on weight loss and flogging Mounjaro these days. He does come across as one that 'just wants to get on with life' and not get dragged into the TWAW arguments.

Ella then appeared on Celebs go Dating and spent an extraordinary amount of time telling the men how lovely 'her' vagina was. I might have occasionally joked that "I've never had any complaints" but I've definitely never said "I have a lovely vagina" to a potential date.