“Why aren’t you getting changed”. Man asks female Darlington nurse this 3 times in female changeroom

I know everyone wants their day in court and to see “Rose” held accountable but - If Darlington offered a settlement that included a full apology, acknowledgement they broke the law, no NDA and a commitment from NHS England that any hospital not complying with the law will be financially penalised. Together with a dedicated whistleblowing hotline?

How likely is that, though? Somehow I can't see Darlington agreeing to a package like that.

I agree an NDA is often used but not always.

Eleanor Frances settled for £116k and no NDA https://www.doyleclayton.co.uk/resources/news/significant-settlement-for-civil-servant-eleanor-frances/

“The settlement was significant in two respects: firstly that the Civil Service settled for the full value of the claim, at a very early stage of proceedings; and secondly that there were no confidentiality restrictions placed upon the settlement.”

In my view, the outcome of Sandie’s ET will have an impact on this case. If, as I hope, the claims against Fife are upheld, Darlington know they would potentially be funding an EAT as well as an ET. Additionally, the outcome for Dr Upton will also be relevant as they are named as a respondent.

Darlington have a duty of care to “Rose”, as well as the nurses. We all know an ET is stressful
for everyone, “Rose” as a witness may not want to testify after seeing what Dr U has gone through, particularly as their alleged behaviour is worse. They can require “Rose” to testify but at what cost?

I know everyone wants their day in court and to see “Rose” held accountable but - If Darlington offered a settlement that included a full apology, acknowledgement they broke the law, no NDA and a commitment from NHS England that any hospital not complying with the law will be financially penalised. Together with a dedicated whistleblowing hotline?

It maybe hard for the nurses to refuse.

If I were one of the Darlington nurses, I would want everybody involved in consigning them to the storeroom (even when it was pointed out that they had been breaking the law) named and shamed. It was spiteful bullying.

Yeah. I don't think the nurses will accept a settlement and one cannot be forced on them. Settlements also invariably come with shut up no discussion clauses, and there's no way the nurses are going to accept that.
There will be no settlement, the nurses will be shouting from the rooftops about their win. People in authority need to be sacked loss of pension etc.... HR needs to be sent on female rights education courses. Only once there's real consequences will this stupidity by useful idiots stop.

I don’t. Im sure the hospital would be keen to settle but it’s not their choice. I think like Fife, the nurses are so furious and have been so public they want their date in court

I still expect this case to be settled before the tribunal.

As with Whitehall: there seriously seems to be an approach to just not follow the law because they don't like having to respect women's rights.

'Bitch Terf Nasty Person space for disobedient women because He Made Us'
This made me laugh, The OtherRaven, very clever summing up of the anti-women position.
I can almost see it on one of those cheap stick-on door signs...😂

It's great that they are carrying on fighting. And of course this should apply throughout the NHS - it's the law. I don't see that the NHS has any excuse for not making all changing-rooms single-sex immediately.

But given that Darlington NHS now knows, thanks to the Supreme Court judgement, that it is definitely breaking the law, and given that it's been told by both the health secretary and the RCN that they must act to stop females having to share with males, then surely Darlington NHS can't carry on defending itself in tribunal? What the hell is their argument going to be? "We are breaking the law but we don't care"? Surely they will attempt a settlement with the nurses?

Check the article. I bolded the key quote above. They appreciate the room, but they are not stopping:

One of them, Bethany Hutchison, said they ‘hugely appreciate’ the action ‘to restore our safety and dignity in the workplace in line with the law’.
And she said the nurses would not ‘stop until this action is extended urgently to female workers across the NHS without any unnecessary delay’.

They are not stopping till they get TOTAL VICTORY. Which is what they need to do.

This is an inspiration to everyone in this fight. We keep going.

Also the issue that in Whitehall itself the judgment is being ignored and men told to do whatever makes them happy.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14790903/Whitehall-staff-flouting-Supreme-Court-ruling-biological-sex-toilets.html

Well yes. I rather want the tribunal to go ahead (whilst wishing the Darlington Nurses did not have to undergo the inevitable stress). But a behind the scenes agreement to comply with the law at Darlington doesn’t help other women in the NHS

It is good news about the Darlington nurses, though i don't really understand about giving them their own room - does this mean that the nurses involved in the action will have their own room, separate from the other female staff? Why not just say that "Rose" has to go in a different changing room and let the nurses use the female changing room? It doesn't make a massive amount of sense.

And does this mean the tribunal will still go ahead or not?

Well done the Darlington nurses for standing up against men who.think they are women. Helping people see the harm done to real women when big institutions pander to this nonsense. Give Rose his own cupboard to change in so he cannot make offensive remarks to women or parade in his pants. Take away his power over women.

One of them, Bethany Hutchison, said they ‘hugely appreciate’ the action ‘to restore our safety and dignity in the workplace in line with the law’.
And she said the nurses would not ‘stop until this action is extended urgently to female workers across the NHS without any unnecessary delay’.

It is good news. Makes their life easier before the inevitable Court win. They are winning back rights for all workers. Darlington is going to be remembered like the Ford Dagenham workers in a while. We probably need to work out who should be cast as Mumsnet users.

Moreover signals along with other recent moves that the Labour leadership know the gender stuff is unpopular and wrong and they can't be bothered to invest time in it. The House of Cards is coming down.

I suppose we will now see whether the NHS trusts return women's changing rooms to women only and deal with the issues of saying 'no' to men employees, or whether they create the Bitch Terf Nasty Person space for disobedient women because He Made Us, and at least permit the non consenting women to escape men harassing them in the women's changing rooms. While permitting those men to go on accessing them.

I could be very cynical and say it will be the latter.

It’s sending a strong message to NHS trusts that they will have to stop flouting the law and treat their female staff properly.

What should actually happen is that the female changing room is declared a single sex space and 'Rose' is given another place to change if he is not prepared to use the mens.

I suspect that he was waiting post SC judgement for Darlington and the NHS generally to come to its senses!

as he’s health Secretary he won’t want Darlington spending more money defending a case he knows they can’t win

however as neither of those seem to be happening, he’s stepped in. That doesn’t mean the nurses can’t still go ahead with their case though

It shows the harm of 'being kind' and moving aside for men in dresses. Real women suffered here. Many won't care because the men in dresses are more important.

So I think Streeting’s intervention means the Darlington Nurses won’t have to get changed in an old office anymore and will get a ‘proper’ changing room. But I don’t think it changes anything wider? I don’t quite understand the implications of what’s happened here

Mail is reporting Wes Streeting hss intervened and ordered the hospital to give the nurses their own room

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14790917/Victory-Darlington-nurses-win-landmark-battle-female-hospital-changing-room.html

brilliant text again by Victoria Smith, using this case as a model example for her argumentation:

"Ultimately, the double bind is both victim-blaming and coercive. Women are put in situations where the only way to prove we are “rational” and “undamaged” is to give in to male demands. Sometimes when I see women denigrating other women for wanting boundaries, even after disclosing their own trauma, I feel they’re attempting to position themselves as “less ruined” than the crazy women “causing trouble”. People are kinder to you if you’re the cool girl saying “yes” than the mad girl saying “no”. Show that whatever was done to you left no marks by letting others do it again. "

thecritic.co.uk/women-should-always-be-able-to-say-no/

Stick cleaning on the table, and as if by magic the actual distinction between men and women (in terms of real discrimination) suddenly appears.

This reminds me of a job I did 50 years ago. There were two managers, one male, one female and a couple of young lads, but otherwise women, in a department of about 20. The male Manager (typical male chauvinist) drew up the tea rota (yes, vitally important!) and put all the women, including our female Manager on, but not the two lads. We crossed her name out and put the two lads on in her place. We argued that Managers had better things to do than make the tea, the lads didn't. Sex didn't need to come into it.

But that was then, when we were busy fighting for our rights, not enabling men. Those too were the days when gender referred to grammar - you would have been laughed at if you talked about being 'misgendered'.

Narcissists always have enablers. They manipulate people around them to prop up their fantasy, and the enablers are afforded a degree of protection form the narcissist's rage. They know what happens to anyone who dares to say No.