Trans people ‘excluded in heart of democracy’ after Holyrood toilet rule change

Divisions developing in Scottish Greens as it now seems Maggie Chapman signed off on the toilet plan.

Johnstone, the head of the Scottish Parliament Corporate Body (SPCB), said access to toilets would be based on “biological sex” and that some of Holyrood’s facilities would be designated as gender neutral spaces, The Times reports.
The changes were signed off by the SPCB, which is responsible for the day-to-day running of the Parliament as a workplace and employer.
That body includes Green MSP Maggie Chapman (above), who found herself at the centre of a major storm after criticising the Supreme Court’s ruling as fuelled by “bigotry, prejudice and hatred”.
She narrowly survived a vote on a motion to remove her from her position as the deputy convenor of Holyrood’s Equality Committee last month.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/scottish-parliament-bans-trans-women-103106495.html

The ONLY explanation is they are narcissists.

There is no alternative explanation.

“Unlike those Gender Critical organisations, we do not believe that the rights of one demographic should be considered greater than another, and where there is a genuine overlap, both groups need a fair and safe solution. So to be clear, our position is that trans women are never subjected to any blanket bans or segregation and they must have the choice of whichever toilet is their individual preference.”

How can they say with a straight face that they do not believe the rights of one demographic should be considered greater than another? They do so while insisting that single sex spaces must always accept men into them.

They lie and lie and lie again and idiots eat it up and never consider women.

@Keeptoiletssafe Jesus, that's the definition of having your cake and eating it.

So the desired outcome is clearly the Hampstead ponds position - a male space, a mixed sex space, and a supposedly female space that's also mixed sex.

Though we know access to unconsenting women is the whole point.

It’s interesting because on translucent in February this year Robin said, ‘Toilets have individual stall for privacy and practice is moving to either provide individual toilet rooms with handbasin, or at least one such facility in group facilities. My friend with a colostomy finds that helpful as do those who are specially sensitive for religious reasons, personal reasons related perhaps to sexual assault or those trans people early in their transition.’
So Robin thinks the design does suit some trans people.

Also Robin Moira White (24 Feb 2025):
‘Male’ and ‘female’
There is no definition of ‘male’ or ‘female’ in the Regulations. There is no ‘common law’ definition of ‘male’ and ‘female’ in UK Law and I challenge anyone to identify it, despite the fact that quite senior Counsel, on occasion, have told judges with a straight face that there is.

The Translucent statement from 2023, actually says that transwomen need both:

Unisex facilities are needed to ensure the health and safety of trans women who require them along with non-binary people, and Female toilets are needed to ensure the safety of both cisgender and trans women who need the provision of gender-assigned facilities that are not used by cis men. Where there is a Unisex toilet, a female toilet is also needed in the same locality, and visa versa.
Unlike those Gender Critical organisations, we do not believe that the rights of one demographic should be considered greater than another, and where there is a genuine overlap, both groups need a fair and safe solution. So to be clear, our position is that trans women are never subjected to any blanket bans or segregation and they must have the choice of whichever toilet is their individual preference. Trans & cis women and those non binary need the option of both Single Sex and Unisex toilets to ensure they have access to the one they are happy to use. We know that those Gender Critical will always have issue with any arrangement that allows trans women to use female spaces and they are never going to accept any arrangement we propose, but the law does not support their position and they have no legal right to harass or try to prevent trans women using any toilet facility. There may not be a solution that resolves every possible issue, but we believe our position provides for spaces that meet the needs of all those transgender whilst not impacting on any understandable claims of safety that women need in safeguarding from cis male predators.

Could you see how many were in the cubicle or if someone had collapsed?

No one is excluded. Everyone is using the bathroom of their biological sex.

As usual, complete, hyperbolic victimization where there is none.

I don't wish harm on any woman, but I imagine most would change their minds if they were expected to take their flooded knickers off in front of the delightful Dr Upton.

I was a good little ally fifteen years ago. I'd still have told him to fuck off while I deal with that!

I find it wryly amusing that the women who are falling over themselves to be good little trans allies, calling themselves cis and full on I'll share spaces with TW are the ones that TRAs view as nothing more than useful idiots.

Keep pushing the conversation, and they will! They've nothing else. As wiser women than me knew when they suggested it, ten or fifteen years ago.

I know that, you know that, they know that I'd just like them to be honest and admit it.

Not good enough. They want the women who say 'no'.

@Waitwhat23 must admit that when I asked I had a feeling what the answer would be but was living in hope of some common sense prevailing, just for once 🤦. Your last paragraph sums it all up perfectly. Lunacy indeed.

Amazing isn't it.

Toilets are very powerful it seems. If you enter a gender neutral space it immediately outs you as not being the sex you want to be/claim to be. Who knew that toilets could do that?

As there are a fair few women who have said they are happy to share with transwomen I am sure there will be women in them there gender neutral/mixed sex toilets to provide the necessary womanhood vibes.

You’ve made it onto speakoutsisters twitter page @BarbieBrightSide (being compared to Jim Crow laws though obvs).

They accuse of us of being mean separatists who want our own spaces to be cruel, all the while wanting the very spaces we are trying to maintain. Do transwomen wonder how Rosa Parks would feel about them not wanting to share their space with men? How is it different when that’s all we want too?

And it's going to take decades to push back all this shit embedded into our national institutions. So get tae with the 'will you lot give over'.

Course we are. The same as we've had to bank roll the Scottish Government for the recent legal cases (Sandie Peggie, the SC judgement, ERCC etc), the GRR Bill consultations, advice about the section 35., the huge amounts of money thrown at lobbying groups for them to give the SG illegal advice, the fact that the SPS will have to do another review of prison policy to actually meet the needs of female prisoners etc etc etc.

What is galling is that we have to pay for all this twice. Once when our Government spunks our money up the wall and then again when we all have to contribute to crowdfunders to stop the lunacy.

We won’t have won until we’ve got all our spaces and rights back.

We sleepwalked into your aggressive takeover bid and it’s going to be a long time before we trust anyone again.

What was that Stonewall phrase again… ah yes…Get over it.

Please don't say that the Scottish taxpayers are funding this!

Cynicalaboutall: I'm afraid there'll be no "give over" from me. In fact I'll be celebrating for as long as I want.

I've no sympathy for men who've been using women's spaces who've now been told NO. It always was no, which everyone knew, until organisations like Stonewall (in particular) decided to pretend that woman, in the EA 2010, also meant men.

All decent men stay out of women's spaces, that's why the social contract regarding single sex toilets has been largely very successful. Some men thought they'd sneaked their way into women's spaces; refuges, Girl Guides, changing rooms, sports, to name but a few. But now the law has been clarified, not changed, that they should never have been there.

So now, I don't have to watch the Prime Minister of my country writhing during interviews, whilst he splutters and declines to say what a woman is. Men who claim to be women and their allies, and those too stupid or weak minded to actually think all this through, did they "give over"? No, they didn't. So I don't give a shiny sh*t for their feelings. Their "feelings" are the reason we're at this point. "But I feel like I'm a woman." Really? Give over.

So in the middle of a thread about some people having tantrums when women's rights in law are clarified you feel the need to...have a tantrum?

Toilets are the heart of democracy, didn't you know?

Nails it!