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Original poster

New Zealand's Forstater case?

95 replies

TheKhakiQuail · 09/05/2025 12:39

Not sure if others have seen this already - NZ is having a court case to test whether GC beliefs are protected as political beliefs!

"In March 2021 LAVA (Lesbian Action for Visibility in Aotearoa) booked a stall at the annual Out in the City (OITC) fair in Wellington, to display a map of Wellington sites of historical, political, and social significance to lesbians.
Initially the booking was accepted, but four days before the event the organisers, Wellington Pride, emailed to say that because of the “nature” of LAVA, the booking did not fit with OITC kaupapa (principles), and there would not be a space for LAVA.
Pride claimed that LAVA was “trans-exclusionary”. The Pride Board Chair stated in an email that OITC participants should be standing side by side with “the most marginalised of the marginalised including our transgender whanau [family] and the marginalisation they face on the daily” (sic)."

"LAVA members, Hilary Oxley and Margaret Curnow, have brought a claim in the New Zealand Human Rights Review Tribunal, claiming that in inviting applications for stalls, Pride was offering a service, and that they unlawfully discriminated against LAVA on the basis of LAVA’s political opinions about trans issues and women’s rights, and because of LAVA’s views that sex and sexual orientation exclude trans women from being women, and lesbians. Pride denies that LAVA’s opinions are “political opinions”, and claims that LAVA’s support for known “anti-trans activists” such as J K Rowling and Julie Bindel is evidence of “transphobia”. Pride suggests that LAVA’s presence with our map would have made the OITC event “unsafe” for trans people, and that the map was based on an idea developed by LGB Alliance Australia, “a known anti-trans group”.
LAVA is represented by senior legal counsel Nicolette Levy KC. Ms. Levy, instructed by Franks Ogilvie lawyers of Wellington, acted for Speak Up for Women (SUFW) in 2021, securing a judgment requiring Palmerston North City Council to allow SUFW to hold a meeting to discuss the proposed self-ID amendments to the Births, Deaths, Marriages, and Relationships Registration Act.
Political philosopher Ramon Das of Victoria University of Wellington, has provided an expert opinion that LAVA’s views on trans issues are political opinions.
This case is important for everyone with gender critical or sex realist beliefs, because it has not been confirmed by a New Zealand Court that such opinions are a political belief protected under the Human Rights Act 1993. The debate over whether gender critical views such as LAVA's are "worthy of respect in a democratic society" has not been had yet in New Zealand.

Read more about the case and LAVA’s origins

They have a crowdfunder on their website - hard to raise funds in a country of 5 million

OP posts:
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LunaTheCat · 16/05/2025 03:45

I live in Nz - this is great. Have donated.
Thankyou.

FuzzikinsPompombum · 16/05/2025 03:41

Thanks for posting. I’m a Brit in NZ so have known (and used and lurked on) MN for years. However I hadn’t heard about this case so thanks for sharing.

SinnerBoy · 16/05/2025 03:30

.

New Zealand's Forstater case?
SinnerBoy · 16/05/2025 03:29

I'll be back from sea at the end of the month and will be able to contribute then. Can you lot keep bumping the thread, so I can find it?

Thanks!

Original poster
TheKhakiQuail · 16/05/2025 02:49

JanesLittleGirl · 15/05/2025 22:27

@Wetoldyousaurus@TheKhakiQuail

As you can see, the more posts you place on here the more donations LAVA get. We are on your side but LAVA could do so much better in terms of funding if they engaged here.

Sending love and a few more NZD..

It's great to see the support for LAVA - I hadn't heard of them until recently but these cases seem to be what makes the biggest difference to securing women's rights. I think if women in NZ and Aus have even heard of Mumsnet there is a perception that it is just a UK thing (and only for Mums). Our local parenting sites weren't really used for politics/organising last time I was on them, at most the odd debate. I hope LAVA pops on to update us.

OP posts:
JanesLittleGirl · 15/05/2025 22:27

@Wetoldyousaurus@TheKhakiQuail

As you can see, the more posts you place on here the more donations LAVA get. We are on your side but LAVA could do so much better in terms of funding if they engaged here.

Sending love and a few more NZD..

HereForTheFreeLunch · 15/05/2025 20:25

I'll look into gardening next month. Would have been better to have a proper site but needs must I guess.

GenderRealistBloke · 15/05/2025 17:37

Donated — good luck LAVA!

borntobequiet · 15/05/2025 17:30

Donated.

Supporterofwomensrights · 15/05/2025 17:18

I would definitely think this is a good forum for NZ women to use. I'm working in a captured sector and really enjoy being able to talk it all through with people is useful.

I also am less likely to look at random cases on various different sites all over the internet. But, here, I will see updates and then I'm reminded that I could donate again and again - as PP said, fundraise in stages and give updates and, as a donor, I'll keep going. Nothing I give is life-changing but I am happy to make fairly frequent small payments to help out where I can.

I care about women all over the world. NZ was inspiring as the first country to give women the vote (I expect you probably helped us to secure that right); it'd be good to get women's rights reinstated* there and even more amazing if I can help in some small way.

*You can't really have them at present if nobody 'knows' what a woman is.

KnottyAuty · 13/05/2025 16:36

Wetoldyousaurus · 13/05/2025 11:34

Thank you everyone. I’ve asked LAVA why they don’t use one of the more well known crowd funding platforms - awaiting response. They are keen to engage more with Mumsnet and I am hoping to encourage more engagement here for NZ women who are still learning about the importance of the GC movement. Most women in NZ have been led to believe that GC ideas are right wing and bigoted so they are afraid to engage, even though many have already had to confront trans ideology in their lives, especially in education and with teenagers. Women here do smell that something is off with TI and self ID but they have been too keen to virtue signal or else just too busy and tired to really want to engage. That will eventually change but we have a long road ahead.

I’d be interested to hear how/whether the Supreme Court ruling in the UK has been reported/received?

Wetoldyousaurus · 13/05/2025 11:34

Thank you everyone. I’ve asked LAVA why they don’t use one of the more well known crowd funding platforms - awaiting response. They are keen to engage more with Mumsnet and I am hoping to encourage more engagement here for NZ women who are still learning about the importance of the GC movement. Most women in NZ have been led to believe that GC ideas are right wing and bigoted so they are afraid to engage, even though many have already had to confront trans ideology in their lives, especially in education and with teenagers. Women here do smell that something is off with TI and self ID but they have been too keen to virtue signal or else just too busy and tired to really want to engage. That will eventually change but we have a long road ahead.

loveyouradvice · 13/05/2025 08:38

really great if NZ women are able to use Mumsnet as a safe space online @TheKhakiQuail ... we Brits are keen to know what is happening overseas, and help where we can... To me, nothing is more important than this issue.

NeedMoreTinfoil · 12/05/2025 20:04

Donated.

PerformativeBewilderment · 12/05/2025 19:56

Donated. Good luck LAVA 💪🏻

QAOPspaceman · 12/05/2025 18:06

Donated. Good luck LAVA

minerva7 · 12/05/2025 16:30

Thanks for the post and info. I will donate as soon as I have the funds available.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 12/05/2025 14:43

TheKhakiQuail · 12/05/2025 10:16

If the amazing UK women didn't mind sharing MN, can you imagine how useful it would be internationally if we used it like they do? Lots of women don't get involved in groups or rallies because they don't have time / want to keep their anonymity / scared of the aggressive counter protesters, but could learn so much from watching what our UK sisters are up to and share what's going on locally and internationally.

Show quote history

I'm sure they won't, there are a lot of very knowledgeable women, and battled scared veterans who post on here. I'm sure they'll be happy to share the benefit of their experience, you never know what might help you in your country. Good luck with the up coming case. 🤞😁🦖

KnottyAuty · 12/05/2025 11:06

Wetoldyousaurus · 12/05/2025 09:48

I will try to get them to post something here. We are all a bit new to Mumsnet over this way as we’ve seen it as more useful to UK context but it might work to gather more NZ voices together, at least to discuss anonymously. Facebook is too dangerous, prone to screen shotting etc.

Yes please to more news.
They might also benefit from updating their fundraising progress and setting intermediate goals - those who donate like to know what is happening and are happy to help promote gardening efforts

CassOle · 12/05/2025 10:37

I personally would love to read more from international posters. This dangerous, anti-reality ideology has spread around many parts of the globe, after all.

Original poster
TheKhakiQuail · 12/05/2025 10:16

Wetoldyousaurus · 12/05/2025 09:48

I will try to get them to post something here. We are all a bit new to Mumsnet over this way as we’ve seen it as more useful to UK context but it might work to gather more NZ voices together, at least to discuss anonymously. Facebook is too dangerous, prone to screen shotting etc.

If the amazing UK women didn't mind sharing MN, can you imagine how useful it would be internationally if we used it like they do? Lots of women don't get involved in groups or rallies because they don't have time / want to keep their anonymity / scared of the aggressive counter protesters, but could learn so much from watching what our UK sisters are up to and share what's going on locally and internationally.

OP posts:
Wetoldyousaurus · 12/05/2025 09:48

I will try to get them to post something here. We are all a bit new to Mumsnet over this way as we’ve seen it as more useful to UK context but it might work to gather more NZ voices together, at least to discuss anonymously. Facebook is too dangerous, prone to screen shotting etc.

Original poster
TheKhakiQuail · 12/05/2025 05:13

loveyouradvice · 11/05/2025 08:20

Is there anyway we can get the Lava women on here to tell us how it's going and how much they've raised and still need? It would be great to hear from them - and I intend to keep bumping this thread so others on here learn more.

Thanks @Wetoldyousaurus for sharing so much about how things are in NZ ... it all sounds painfully familiar.

From their website news update 2nd May, it looks like the current costs incurred are around $50,000 NZ, and they had raised $35,000 NZ.

A further $100,000 is expected to be incurred during the 4 weeks of hearings which are spread out over several months starting in July.

So they still need about $115,000 NZ or 51,000 GBP over the coming months (minus whatever the generous women of MN have contributed this week).

OP posts:
Igmum · 11/05/2025 14:37

Thanks Cake and Khaki, have donated and fingers crossed for those wonderful women down under.

loveyouradvice · 11/05/2025 08:20

Is there anyway we can get the Lava women on here to tell us how it's going and how much they've raised and still need? It would be great to hear from them - and I intend to keep bumping this thread so others on here learn more.

Thanks @Wetoldyousaurus for sharing so much about how things are in NZ ... it all sounds painfully familiar.