Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Sex and "The Data (Use and Access) Bill" - Supreme Court Ruling Undone by Stealth?

114 replies

KnottyAuty · 09/05/2025 10:58

A new thread to discuss what might be done about this potential disaster for accurate data recording on sex and implications. As before, if sex data is not recorded this will be default, government backed gender self ID.

"Core to this bill is a trust framework for “digital verification services” (DVS) to allow people to exchange verified personal information about themselves easily without relying on paper documents"

In other words a male can register with the app as a female, and the app will create a type of pass for entry into any single sex space.

Background briefing from last December:
https://sex-matters.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/Summary-report-Sex-and-the-Data-Bill.pdf

Briefing on the Amendment for accurate recording of sex - MPs voted against last Wednesday (7th May):
https://sex-matters.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/Data-Bill-briefing-%E2%80%93-Amendment-NC21.pdf

Many of us will have emailed our MPs after this thread last weekend:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5328897-urgent-bh-terfing-write-to-your-mp-today-5th-may-on-the-data-bill

Many of us have had no reply. Others have received a reply and been called transphobic by their MP! This is despite public opinion clearly hardening against self ID on YouGov polls.

The Bill is going to the Lords next Wednesday 12th May.

What can be done to press for accurate recording of sex in this new digital ID system?

Urgent BH terfing- write to your MP TODAY 5th May on the Data Bill | Mumsnet

I think this should have its own thread for visibility. The Data Bill is being debated this week and will introduce *self ID by the back door* unless...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5328897-urgent-bh-terfing-write-to-your-mp-today-5th-may-on-the-data-bill

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
IDareSay · 12/05/2025 18:08

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 12/05/2025 17:58

Do you have a link? I’m on the Hansard site, but am only getting commentary from one Lord.

Show quote history

Hansard takes a while to catch up. There is another Sex Matters amendment coming up after the one on AI etc currently being discussed.

Brainworm · 12/05/2025 18:00

I’ve picked this up from Twitter. Sex Matters posted the outcome, others who watched it on TV reported on the mixed quality of points raised

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 12/05/2025 17:58

Brainworm · 12/05/2025 17:56

Apparently, some good points were raised, alongside the batshit ones!

Do you have a link? I’m on the Hansard site, but am only getting commentary from one Lord.

Brainworm · 12/05/2025 17:56

Apparently, some good points were raised, alongside the batshit ones!

maltravers · 12/05/2025 17:51

I love the HoL, a bastion of sense and careful scrutiny.

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 12/05/2025 17:51

Brainworm · 12/05/2025 17:45

I’ve just seen the the amendment was passed in the House of Lords today.
Looks like we’re on for some parliamentary ping-pong!

Seriously?!? Oh, I must go find the Hansard transcripts for that!

Brainworm · 12/05/2025 17:45

I’ve just seen the the amendment was passed in the House of Lords today.
Looks like we’re on for some parliamentary ping-pong!

IDareSay · 12/05/2025 16:29

Debate in the HoL has started. Go to ParliamentTV and rewind to 4pm.

The13thFairy · 12/05/2025 14:57

WearyLady · 12/05/2025 14:16

Just Google you’re MP’s name and ‘voting record’ and you’ll get a link for your MP’s voting record on the UK Parliament web site.

Show quote history

Thank you. I had no idea it was so straightforward to find out what a misbegotten git my MP is.

WearyLady · 12/05/2025 14:16

The13thFairy · 12/05/2025 09:43

I got no reply from my Labour MP. How can I find out how he voted, please?

Just Google you’re MP’s name and ‘voting record’ and you’ll get a link for your MP’s voting record on the UK Parliament web site.

Original poster
KnottyAuty · 12/05/2025 11:11

OuterSpaceCadet · 12/05/2025 09:35

Wasn't there a recent thread or news article where a woman's holiday insurance wouldn't pay out because she'd started HRT and not informed them? And another which wouldn't pay out because a doctor had merely documented their wondering about a condition which was never actually diagnosed?

Show quote history

Apparently it varies between insurers: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=402246942948184

OP posts:
Peregrina · 12/05/2025 09:48

Wasn't there a recent thread or news article where a woman's holiday insurance wouldn't pay out because she'd started HRT and not informed them? And another which wouldn't pay out because a doctor had merely documented their wondering about a condition which was never actually diagnosed?

My personal experience of Insurance Companies is that if they can find an excuse not to pay out, they will.

The13thFairy · 12/05/2025 09:43

I got no reply from my Labour MP. How can I find out how he voted, please?

Brefugee · 12/05/2025 09:41

In the end, it is insurance that brings in many "laws" by the back door.
Here in Germany it is not (yet) compulsory to use winter tyres (deeper tread, not the studded ones) during the winter months. But if you have an accident during the winter, and you have "summer" tyres on your car, your insurance pay out will be reduced because you didn't do all you could to avoid the accident (due to ice or whatever)

So the de facto rule here is that in October we all get our winter tyres on, and just after Easter we change them all back. Just to be sure.

OuterSpaceCadet · 12/05/2025 09:35

KnottyAuty · 11/05/2025 21:58

In one of the NHS policies I found this:

1.7.3 Insurance matters Employers registering staff for corporate insurance are advised to inform their underwriters if they know of a trans employee’s status, since some insurers automatically invalidate a policy if a major fact such as medical/surgical gender reassignment is not disclosed. The employer should inform the employee before disclosing this information. If an employer is unaware that an employee has a reassigned gender, the obligation to disclose falls upon the employee, who could also be held liable in the event of an accident for which no valid insurance cover exists.

So whoever mentioned insurance and the data bill may well be on to something... how could this be tested out?

Wasn't there a recent thread or news article where a woman's holiday insurance wouldn't pay out because she'd started HRT and not informed them? And another which wouldn't pay out because a doctor had merely documented their wondering about a condition which was never actually diagnosed?

IDareSay · 12/05/2025 08:10

Heads up that this bill is back in the House of Lords later today, probably no earlier than teatime.

Original poster
KnottyAuty · 11/05/2025 21:58

In one of the NHS policies I found this:

1.7.3 Insurance matters Employers registering staff for corporate insurance are advised to inform their underwriters if they know of a trans employee’s status, since some insurers automatically invalidate a policy if a major fact such as medical/surgical gender reassignment is not disclosed. The employer should inform the employee before disclosing this information. If an employer is unaware that an employee has a reassigned gender, the obligation to disclose falls upon the employee, who could also be held liable in the event of an accident for which no valid insurance cover exists.

So whoever mentioned insurance and the data bill may well be on to something... how could this be tested out?

OP posts:
TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 09/05/2025 23:14

FigRollsAlly · 09/05/2025 23:01

Of the 3 Labour MPs who seemed to agree that an amendment was needed, two abstained and one voted against it. I hope that whatever they claim is going on behind the scenes to sort this out is actually going somewhere.

Seriously, I take it back I don't want these party drones as my MP either, especially the one who spoke for it then voted against it. 🤯

Original poster
KnottyAuty · 09/05/2025 23:12

RedToothBrush · 09/05/2025 16:41

NHS can't afford this.

Show quote history

The NHS and public services self indemnify.
it will be business that pays the costs - and that will fall to customers/us… annoying that this farce is allowed to happen and that we will foot the bill. Argh why not be sensible and avoid all the waste of time, energy and money?

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/05/2025 23:05

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 09/05/2025 16:47

The more I think about this the bigger the opportunity I see. I wonder how many people realise that passport could have their sex markers changed on request. Or that people could get birth certificates reissued.

This Bill is a great chance to make all of that public.

Yes letters to insurers but also to individual service providers and government entities. Anywhere single sex provisions or EA2010 duties apply. If the legislation is passed unchanged then relying on the digital app will have become an unsafe thing to do because the data is too unreliable to absolve you of any reasonable due diligence obligations.

I agree with you - you can extrapolate from polling that most people think a GRC is needed to change passport etc.

FigRollsAlly · 09/05/2025 23:01

Of the 3 Labour MPs who seemed to agree that an amendment was needed, two abstained and one voted against it. I hope that whatever they claim is going on behind the scenes to sort this out is actually going somewhere.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 09/05/2025 20:30

IwantToRetire · 09/05/2025 19:22

Sex Matters on "Bad Arguements"
The new clause was voted down. This post looks at the bad arguments and flimsy excuses that were made in the debate.
https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/inaccurate-sex-data-excuses-and-bad-arguments/

The argument for recording sex was clear and well put, the arguments against recording sex was the usual rubbish from the usual rubbish people.
It was good to know there were 3 Labour MP's who spoke for it though, I wish anyone of them were my MP, instead of the party drone we've got.

BonfireLady · 09/05/2025 19:08

I've not yet RTFT but I'm wondering if this Bill passing without the amendment (which seems inevitable 🤬) might well expose the utter farce behind the Passport Office and DVLA allowing people to falsify their sex on legal documents and provide a good reason to push even harder for the repeal of the GRA.

Digital ID is only as good as the data that feeds it. Surely the DVLA and Passport Office are breaking the law, irrespective of their "official processes"? Repealing the GRA would need a different approach, given it legally allows people to change their birth certificates. But I don't believe there is any law underpinning what the Passport Office and DVLA are doing.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 09/05/2025 17:58

HollieHock · 09/05/2025 16:55

How do we find out how our MPs voted? I haven't had a reply from my LibDem one.

Posted earlier by RexsSoupCan · Today 14:26

My MP voted no although I did write to her.
Breakdown of votes here:
https://votes.parliament.uk/votes/commons/division/2016#noes