Cisgender lesbian forcibly removed from toilets by male security after being wrongly accused of being a man

Yes, some trans men pass, but most of us can only dream of looking like this. Before TRAs broke the social contract, the trans men in these pics were allowed to go the men's, and nobody said anything. Blame the TRAs if now they have to go to the women's.

It's an extract from the Abuser's Handbook - coercive control chapter:

"Look what you made me do! UK women arguing they shouldn't be forced to undress in front of unknown men (Sandie Peggie / Darlington nurses etc) and share toilets with them are directly responsible for security guards in the USA challenging lesbians behaving badly in a toilet".

"It's all your fault! You'll be publicly shamed and written about in Prick news..."

Women are most at risk of sexual violence in their own homes. If we really want to protect women from male violence we should focus our attention on domestic abuse.

Incidentally. Re: the thread title.
Lesbians are lesbians.
Adult human females.
They don't need some gobshite descriptor referring to them as " cisgender".
They are biological women, who happen to be same sex attracted. HtH OP.

Apologies, I should have tagged BeyondMyWits.

ID and genital checks are ridiculous suggestions, yet we see them all the time.

Do I need to post this for you again?

Candid photos tell a different story, seeing someone in real life even more so:

I'm also left wondering (without granting the validity of the rotten bloody concept in the slightest, you understand...) how a lesbian can be anything other than "cisgender" in the first place? Surely if she identifies as anything other than a woman she no longer complies with the definition of the term? And the whole extra rabble-rousing descriptor is redundant anyway?

Yup, dude looks like a lady. 😊https://rabbit-green-dz2y.squarespace.com/strengthandconfidence

Very likely.

I am a trans man, and have known quite a few. Most of us are easily clocked as biologically female.

Well exactly.
Another tall tale.

Toilets are not a red herring. Toilets are crucial to this argument and have been used as a Trojan horse to access other female only spaces on the excuse 'we just want to x'. Women cannot be in the public sphere without provision of safe and private lavatories. I do not understand why anyone minimises this issue.
Also if men in frocks were not using women's facilities there would be no problem for women who are gender-nonconforming.

The problem is in your thread title. The word cis doesn't mean anything. The word lesbian foes mean doneyhjng hut has no relevance here. Thread title should be, 'Woman wrongly removed from female toilet.' That's clear and allows everyone to address the issue. No, the woman should not have been removed from the toilet. She us owed an apology and the hotel should be grovelling to her and offering compensation for the unacceptable humiliation. End of.

In a separate issue which you seem to be conflating so I will also address it. Men shouldn't be in womens toilets.

Most transmen do not look like men really, they are women's height, small hands, often wide hips, and wispy beard.

What is the danger they are in?

The vast majority of assaults are committed by men. Women are pretty accommodating if you explain. Women are generally capable of talking before raising their fists.

Never mind. Sometimes people who are dressed in a way which is more typical of the opposite sex, or who are actually trying to present as belonging to the opposite sex, will be questioned about whether they are in the right bathroom. How is that 'scary'?

Filed under things that never happened. Funny how they don’t name the 5 star hotel.

I think for some women, it will impact their self esteem if people assume that they are male. I know that being called masculine or male is very hurtful to me personally.

I am quite sure that tall women with short hair and narrow hips are able to advocate for themselves when this arises. There are numerous women on here saying it happens to them at times, and they say "no I'm a woman", everyone's a bit embarassed, and then they get on with their day.

It's annoying but it's not life-threatening, or literal violence, or even "sad and scarey".

What's the alternative to expecting short-haired women to explain? As soon as they speak it's obvious. I don't understand what the very upset and scared butch lesbians want to happen? What's the outcome you'd like? Make it normal for men and women to be in all toilets? That seems like a ludicrous step to take to put women in harm's way in order to avoid a tricky conversation.

We're not in control of all the people in the world. We didn't invite men into the ladies toilets (well, some women did, but all the sex realist women seem to be being held accountable for this mess). It worked fine 20 years ago. When people could speak to one another and had a sense of humour.

This all sounds like hysterical American shit.

Don't have an adult son. Pretty sure it was a white lesbian who used the female toilets in Westfield and someone called security.

@WhatNextCatsAsDoctors

"This highlights what is obviously wrong with the SC clarification and EHRC ‘guidance’: it’s impossible to enforce."

It's really not. 99,99% of people are easily sexed on sight.

"my wife who is a butch woman sometimes gets people questioning her gender or accidentally called ‘sir’ or ‘mister’, and I know it’s only a matter of time before she’s questioned when just trying to use the bathroom."

At which point she'll speak up and people will realise that she's a woman and everything will be fine.

"It’s a massive issue and other than passing blame I haven’t seen it be addressed properly on here yet."

How would you suggest it's addressed?

"the fact trans men dare to exist."

I'm a trans man. What about us?

If It weren’t for the fact that they would be put in a dangerous position - I would love for every trans man in the UK to start using ‘women’s WCs’ and other women only spaces.
Trans men do not look like women and they will not be accepted by women in women only spaces.

Everyone knows what sex they are, even if they wish they were the opposite sex and have modified their bodies. Most people are decent and decent people will follow the law.

I am hoping that after the tantrums have died out, things will settle down. Any obvious arseholes that don't use the single-sex facilities for thie sex or unisex options will stand out more and more and the pressure on them to stop behaving like arseholes will grow.

Did the bat signal go out on Reddit or something? 😂😂😂😂😂

Hopefully it didn’t impact your adult son