Sturgeon: SC ruling risks making trans lives "unliveable"

Gosh, the Times reporting is so much better than other media outlets on this.

@fromorbit of course there's a theory that she wanted Westminster to block the bill, in order to boost support for independence.

I just can't stand her - and I used to be a fan. I was thinking of going to the How The Light Gets In festival, but I saw she was a speaker and that really put me off. I don't want to be in the same postcode as her!

@Keeptoiletssafe Your expertise is wanted re toilets/cubicles. Please can you go to this thread? At least the last page or so of it. www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5328137-new-councillor-wants-to-stop-free-mixing-between-men-and-women?latest=1

Will the TAs ever blame Sturgeon for creating the chain of events that led to the Supreme Court Case do we think?

I think looking back we can see she always took the decision which would maximise opposition, while putting the Scottish government on ever weaker legal ground.

She knew that Scotland didn't have the legal power to pass the act and that it was possible the Tories would block it.

I mean the the incredible women who stood against her achieved this, but she through incompetence or fanaticism made it easier.

I suppose she thinks she's got nothing to lose now. We all know what she's like so she may as well just continue in the same ridiculous direction!

Quite.

Isla B and Katie D happened on her watch. How many more predators attacking women and girls will it take for her to accept she was dead wrong about this from the start

You would think a former First Minister who was also a solicitor would know what the law had been all along. She destroyed Scotland, watched it crumble into the shitheap it has become, while she merrily tried to destroy women's rights, endanger children and isolate parents from their children. So much money was wasted on her ridiculous and dangerous Self ID law. The damage that's been done, the women and children affected by her arrogance, her gaslighting, her bitterness towards Westminster will never be righted. She should hang her head in shame instead of talking shit for whatever bit of publicity she can get. It's sickening to see her rear her head but cockroaches will always come out of the woodwork, won't they.

Guilty as charged! Well, a few years ago anyway. And as PP pointed out, similar with Jacinda Ardern.Tbf, both enjoyed very favourable and uncritical coverage from the British English media. And of course, compared to Boris Johnson... at least NS pitched up for important govt meetings, instead of swanning off to the Caribbean. Obviously, if you look a bit closer at what's been going in Scotland on NC's watch, a very different story emerges.

She isn't. She never was. She was in thrall to the idea of herself as the leader of a new civil rights movement and going down in history as a leading visionary like Attlee. Because she was focused on her ego and self image and not what was actually right, she brushed away all the obvious problems and tried to force it anyway. It's all come up a complete turd and since she lacks the humility and grace to be a stateswoman, she can't accept what a huge balls up she made and the damage she's done, so she's doubling down and always will.

Horrendous woman. But she's far from alone.

I can only assume that she's got some financial grift going.

It wouldn't be the first time would it !!!

She's an absolute disgrace.

In the event that the polis ever dug up evidence that sent her to prison, I think it would be reasonable to ask her to share a cell with the fragrant Isla. I wonder which of them would come off worse… 🤔

Oh FFS

“It certainly doesn’t make a single woman any safer to do that because the threat to women comes from predatory and abusive men.”

Nicola love you invented "rapist gender" to avoid calling a man a man. Please fuck off.

This is potentially dangerous. She needs to look at Samaritans guidelines on suicide. You absolutely must not infer that ‘x’ will lead to people killing themselves. She needs to chose her words extremely wisely.

2ndly she is wrong on toilets.
“I would be very concerned if that interim guidance became the final guidance and I hope that is not the case because I think that potentially makes the lives of trans people almost unliveable.
“It certainly doesn’t make a single woman any safer to do that because the threat to women comes from predatory and abusive men.”

Of course it makes women safer. It makes children safer. It makes those with invisible disabilities safer.

Single sex toilets are safer because they are the designs with door gaps. Mixed sex toilets are always private. Everyone is safer with safety gaps under the doors (it’s likely to prevent all sorts of undesirable things happening to the occupant).

Where do you end up if you feel sick? You go to a toilet. If that leads to worse, like a heart attack or stroke or prolonged seizure, then your chances are much higher in a single sex toilet that’s designed with a door gap at the bottom so you can be seen to be rescued in time.

I have always disliked NS so can only imagine how it must feel for those that did see her as a positive force, once upon a time. Betrayed probably doesn't even begin to cover it.

I wanted NS to be a positive force because I found her relatable. In many ways, she appeared to be like me (Scottish, working class background, state educated), and of a similar age, and I see myself as honest and straightforward and intelligent in a practical rather than abstract sort of way. That apparent relatability probably deceived me for a while. I didn't feel so much betrayed as naïve and cross with myself for having made an elementary error of judgement based on spurious factors and, maybe, some personal vanity. Other people with clearer sight seem to have recognised her for what she was a lot sooner than I did.

I feel similarly about Jacinda Ardern. There were posts I'd made on social media that later made me cringe when I discovered that she'd supported the blatant travesty of "Laurel" Hubbard being allowed to compete in women's Olympic weightlifting.

The basic question to demand of these idiots is ok, how do we make these men happy without destroying women and gay people's legal rights and protections for them?

And force the admission they they in fact are looking to destroy women and gay people's rights in law. And in fact those of women with trans identities. For the enablement of men on a sexed basis. Any men in fact, as the judgment makes clear there is no way to separate one such man from all men.

Thinking on it, perhaps the response to men who describe themselves as women saying they can't use the male changing room because men might harm them is

Are you saying all men are rapists/violent/transphobic

I think women have absolutely pointed out the risk of vawg if we are made to share female only spaces with men who describe themselves as women.

The problem is that women who talk about vawg and point out that men are the ones doing the violence are punished for it, are we saying all men are rapists etc, so we've had to take a different route.

But vawg is why I won't share single space spaces with men who describe themselves as women. The vawg I've experienced and the vawg I know those men have and will do in female only spaces.

There is a (very weak) script to dismiss VAWG, which is largely to pretend that no men with trans identities have ever exploited or committed such VAWG while identifying into their spaces, and when shunted from that position and the obvious evidence of the court cases to whinge about NAMALT and how mean women are to exclude men on the grounds that some of them have been rapists, sex offenders etc. That oddly doesn't seem to apply at all when it's men wailing that they cannot use men's spaces because men might hurt them, but there's never any logic or equality of standards.

It's harder to dismiss the privacy, dignity, autonomy, right to not be a non consenting participant in a man's sexual experiences or identity validation, equality of access for all women etc etc without openly taking the mask off and admitting that this political viewpoint doesn't see women as equally human or entitled to the right to say no to men. Or entitled to such things when inconvenient to men.

That, plus the sexual aspects, needs much more exploring in the eyes of the general public to get the full picture. But then news stories are all over the press constantly, and in court, and it never seems to make any difference, VAWG is so boringly normal.

Nicola; in the immortal words of Germaine "I don't care!"

According to Nicola it was appropriate to put rapist Isla Bryson in a women's prison, whereas it would have been inappropriate to put Adam Graham in a women's prison. How come? How come, Nic, you think that Isla Bryson should have more rights than Adam Graham?

I think she's confused by kilts. Does she think a huge dollop of her voting population is trans?

I still still don’t understand why she’s in such thrall to TW (let’s face it she doesn’t give a toss about TM) I mean why would any politician, any sane person, self immolate over men who like to present as women?

Obviously the first thing she would have done if the bill had actually been implemented would to install magic force fields in all female space that sound an alarm when a male predator tried to enter… REGARDLESS of how he identified…because as I’m sure she know…per capita of males…the trans identifying ones are very well represented in the sexual predator category!!!