Why do they hate us so much?

Exactly. If your average woman knew she was not wanted in a place and her presence made others uncomfortable for understandable reasons I’m sorry but the vast majority of women would certainly not then press on demanding access. We just wouldn’t. The behaviour of TRAs is the exact opposite of how actual women do behave.

They don’t care about women’s rights, opinions or feelings because TRAs are not women - they’re a bunch of men who’ve been told no, and it’s a word they’re not used to hearing.

It’s a club they’ve been told they can’t join, so they want to kick the doors down, piss in the corners and set fire to the whole fucking thing, until the only ‘women’ left have cocks and balls.

It’s this very contradiction that shows them most clearly for who they really are. If transwomen are women, they should only want what’s best for women, which includes safeguarding sex-based rights and protections. Those people obviously exist within the trans community, but unfortunately it’s become too frightening for anyone with a rational point of view to speak out, or be heard over the testosterone-fuelled rage of the men’s rights activists who’ve railroaded the whole debate and claim to be acting in the interests of kindness and inclusivity for all. Except biological women, obviously. Those bitches should just STFU and sit down.

Why do men who identify as trans and want to live as women not actually want to listen to women or respect women's wishes or the law that protects us?

Because many men deep down disdain or even hate women (as a group). Putting on a dress doesn't change this.

Why do they hate us?

Because men are mostly selfish and arrogant and entitled, and, for a lot of them, this is the first time they have ever been told no.

No they can't invade our spaces, no they are not women, they will never be women, no they are not entitled to carry out mammograms or use the ladies loos or take women's swimming titles.

And they really really don't like it !!

I worked a man who transitioned back in the 90s. There was none of this aggression, no demands, no intrusion, he simply wished to be left alone to live his private life. And he was treated with quiet respect as a result. This is quite different.

They should take it up with stonewall and gendered intelligence and all the organisations that told them they could have women’s stuff instead of campaigning for third spaces. Don’t blame women for being pleased we’ve got the stuff back that was stolen from us.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Edit to say, that's not that I think anyone should get attacked for how they look. But if you other yourself, you are creating difficulties in your life, and that's your problem to solve.

Because we are everything they want to, but can never, be.

A flavour of domestic abuse to be played out in the public realm, en masse. Desire for power, control, dominance, competition, revenge, lack of emotional intelligence and regulation skills. I’ll never forget Shon Faye’s “Enjoy ur erasure”.

I've noticed that as well, I think if you're a man who is attracted to men you must live a very male centric life, and women and their concerns a probably not a blip on your radar most days. Which is understandable because as a straight women the concerns of gay men didn't come up on my radar that often either.

My concern is when gay men raise to a position of authority, where they have to make decisions that affect people, including women, their blind spot might lead them to making male centric decisions.

Although that's not to say gay men shouldn't be allowed to raise to such positions of course.

Then they shouldn’t have put themselves in this situation, should they? They’re men, they can pee with men, no one will bat an eyelid in 2025 at a man in make up.

They really don’t like women very much, I’ve noticed it with gay men too, there’s nothing in it for them to take women’s feelings into consideration, they see women as existing to facilitate their wants and needs, not as individual people in our own right.

Never mind all the women who have been scared because your friends have been in female bathrooms. I doubt they "clearly look like women". Very few men can truly "pass". And even then, they still don't belong in female spaces.

Jealousy. They know they aren't women, they wish they were and they hate us because we are what they can't be. Not all, there are decent TW, but the vile ones.

Why do your trans friends think things have come to this pass? If they believe it's the fault of the women who said no and the SC who agreed, I would respectfully suggest they look closer to home. The tras massively over reached. It's not just or mostly about toilets. It's twaw, which is obvious nonsense. It's the ideology being taught to children. It's allowing men, any man, into our changing rooms, into our sports. It's allowing rapists to be called women and locked up with women. The words we used to describe ourselves being taken or labelled bigoted. We were gestators, menstruators, bleeders, vagina or uterus havers.

If they pushed for any of that and now they're fearful because as grown-ass adults they can't go to the toilet, tell them to find a mirror in another room and take a good long look in it.

They’re men, who have been taught from a young age that the world is theirs for the taking…men never had to fight for their spaces, or their place in public life, it was just a given. So they’ve taken that socialisation and put it into practice.

Helen Joyce wrote a brilliant article about this a few years ago, sadly I can’t find it.
Many TW who are really autogynephiles - for them we are the focus; they want what we have and require our validation and participation in their fetish. Other men are largely irrelevant in this. Also throw in a dose of narcissistic rage when their fantasy is interrupted.

I think there’s a lot of men with a fetish who don’t understand that it’s a fetish, they think the sexual arousal they get from pretending to be women is actually some kind of joyous experience of authenticity. Being male for them carries memories of trauma and it’s easier to escape to an imaginary persona than face the pain.

This means there’s a bunch of men who think women are gatekeeping womanhood out of bigotry and spite and refusing to let them join what they think is some kind of special club. They don’t understand the fear women have because they are not women so they just think women are being mean.

If you pile on body dysmorphia there’s a lot of men who take hormones and actually think they start to pass as women, albeit in need of a lot of makeup and hair removal.

In a normal world they would be given support and counselling but they are being massively failed.

Just offering an alternative perspective, not interested in any arguments.

Oh, we know. You must yearn for the glory days of 'no debate'.

No your right, I'm not saying that even the 'genuine' people should have any special treatment.

I don't think there is such a thing as 'trans', it's a maladaptive copying mechanism that doesn't work. I would prefer to see some sort of therapy be developed so that they can be helped to find a way to accept the reality of what they are.

I don't think the 'performative' trans want therapy, because it's not a copying mechanism it's a deliberate choice men make because they get sexual satisfaction from it.

My trans friends are scared. Because now they will have to use the male bathrooms when they clearly look like a woman. So I think it’s wrong to assume that trans women are predators.
Just offering an alternative perspective, not interested in any arguments.

Because we so no.
It really is that simple.

Yikes!

*male privilege

Simply because men DO NOT understand that we NEED privacy. To take one example - they pee in front of each other, and most of them don't have any scruples about peeing in front of me (us).
But we understand privacy. I would NEVER allow anyone to see me use the toilet, and so many boys/men just cannot accept that. (It's common knowledge among my friends that I dumped a boy for telling me I should let him see me pee.)
Sorry - 1 example. But it illustrates that men don't think we should be allowed to do ANYTHING without them breathing down our necks.
Also, they're suspicious of us - they think that if we disappear into the Ladies together we're plotting to kill them! (Which pretty much shows what they get up to in the Gents!).

Strongly expressed emotions garner the most attention.

I doubt there is a generalised hatred but more the frustration of people who are baffled that women are not prepared to participate in an immersive fiction that actively harms women’s privacy, dignity, safety and ability to participate in a range of activities.

This is being interpreted in hyperbolic ways by those who have their own reasons for wanting others to accept their distorted reality. And they may even consider deceiving others to their own political ends to be justifiable. It also attracts those who want a cover for misogyny.