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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Statement from the Society of Radiographers re Mammograms

293 replies

Mollyollydolly · 04/05/2025 22:37

The Society of Radiographers have issued the following statement after the news story this week.
Women are already self excluding because of the coverage, women will probably die.
They have fucked up massively.
I have no words for the damage they've done.
I'd really love to know which individual proposed it in the name of diversity and inclusion.
So angry about it.
And to all the women on here who were posting they didn't care who did it, this is the result. Women self excluding.

"Recent media coverage about the role of men in mammography has caused concern for people and we want to provide reassurance and set the record straight.
The coverage followed a motion passed at the Society of Radiographers’ Annual Delegates Conference (ADC). ADC provides members with the opportunity to help shape the strategic direction of the Society. Each region and country propose motions for debate, which are voted on by delegates at the conference.
The motion in question asked the Society to explore how we could support fair access to mammography as a career, as mammography in breast screening is currently restricted to female staff.
It does not change NHS policy, and it does not mean that only male mammographers will be employed.
We understand that this coverage has led to distress and confusion, with some contacting screening services or cancelling appointments, concerned that they will be having a man perform their mammogram. We are deeply sorry for the concern this has caused and are working to provide clear and accurate information.
No changes have been made to who carries out breast screening by this motion. The breast screening experience remains:

  • A specialist called a mammographer will take breast screening mammograms.
  • The mammographer will be female.
  • They will explain what will happen at each stage, and you can ask any questions you may have.
  • Radiographers and mammographers in NHS services continue to ensure that patient care is delivered safely, sensitively, and with respect for personal, cultural, and religious needs.

Breast screening is a vital part of early cancer detection and saves lives every year. We recognise how important it is that women feel safe, respected and informed when accessing these services. Protecting trust in the screening programme is essential, and we are working with our NHS colleagues to support this. The motion passed at ADC will now go to the Society’s UK Council to decide whether any further work should be done. If it is taken forward, this will involve detailed discussions with NHS bodies, patient groups and service providers. While the Society can advocate for change on behalf of members, it does not have the authority to change NHS policy. Our intention is to support a professional, inclusive workforce while always protecting the rights and dignity of patients. Mammography screening services will continue to prioritise compassionate, people-centred care. Further updates will be shared when appropriate." https://www.sor.org/news/mammography/public-statement-mammography

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borntobequiet · 05/05/2025 08:53

peanutbuttertoasty · 04/05/2025 23:10

Why are most gynaecologists men?!

There are actually more female gynaecologists than male at present. AI tells me that the proportion of female gynaecologists is greater than that of male (is backed up by NHS data)
https://digital.nhs.uk/binaries/content/assets/website-assets/supplementary-information/supplementary-info-2024/hchs-drs-with-obstetrics--gynaecology-specialty-by-gender-2009--2024_ah4965.xlsx

Gynaecology was practised solely by men before women were permitted to study medicine. In fact, male gynaecologists did much to make childbirth safer and more comfortable for women. Reproductive medicine is a complex, interesting and demanding discipline. Taking a mammogram is a relatively simple procedure requiring a far lower level of qualification.

If more mammographers are needed, efforts should be made to recruit women, perhaps through the Level 4 Apprenticeship route, which already exists. Flexible working and family friendly hours could make it an attractive prospect.

https://digital.nhs.uk/binaries/content/assets/website-assets/supplementary-information/supplementary-info-2024/hchs-drs-with-obstetrics--gynaecology-specialty-by-gender-2009--2024_ah4965.xlsx

AnnaMagnani · 05/05/2025 08:51

It would be more helpful to know why there are staff shortages and are they general or in specific places, rather than just saying the answer is to employ men.

I work as a locum in a shortage specialty and it's always obvious why the place I am working can't recruit - either it's geographically remote, next door to a much more popular town or the team is affected by bullying. Or a combination of the three.

Lovelyview · 05/05/2025 08:41

MyOliveHelper · 05/05/2025 08:25

That's all irrelevant if you can just tick a box stating your preference for a female or that you don't mind a male.

I have mammograms. Have done since 30.

But even a hint that a man might do a mammogram has already caused women to cancel their appointments. If men routinely became involved in the service far more women would self exclude which is the opposite outcome to what the service wants to achieve. Women on the other thread have said they have requested women for other procedures and found out that there was only a man available when they arrived for their appointment. I confidently predicted this suggestion will never ne implemented because it would be counter productive and far too difficult to manage.

SirChenjins · 05/05/2025 08:37

MyOliveHelper · 05/05/2025 08:25

That's all irrelevant if you can just tick a box stating your preference for a female or that you don't mind a male.

I have mammograms. Have done since 30.

Which requires a level of health literacy that not every woman receiving a letter has.

If a woman goes for mammogram not understanding that she will see a male, how will the service ensures she’s still seen the same day by a female? Will she have the confidence to refuse a male, or will she feel she has to acquiesce?

AnnaMagnani · 05/05/2025 08:34

peanutbuttertoasty · 04/05/2025 23:10

Why are most gynaecologists men?!

They aren't, at least in the UK.

It's more like 60% female, 40% male.

The trend is for the specialty to become increasingly female as medicine itself is becoming increasingly female.

Enough4me · 05/05/2025 08:32

Meadowfinch · 05/05/2025 08:21

@whatsit84 Surely you can't be that dim !

I think the poster must be dim or confused...one of those 'what is a woman?' people.

MyOliveHelper · 05/05/2025 08:26

Floisme · 05/05/2025 08:24

I’ve not read the entire thread so if this has already been discussed please ignore me but where has this ‘shorter wait’ business come from? You get a breast screening reminder every 3 years and the only time I’ve been aware of that being delayed was because of lockdown (and I understand they’ve now caught up). Has the 3 years been creeping up to 3-4 or something?

From my understanding, some places in the UK do struggle to have people seen in time for routine screening due to lack of staff. It isn't an issue where I live at all.

MyOliveHelper · 05/05/2025 08:25

Lovelyview · 05/05/2025 08:22

It's hopefully never going to be a decision that anyone will have to make. This is a screening test which is already not a pleasant experience. You already receive a letter saying that repeated xrays can increase your risk of cancer so a mammogram itself is currently not without risk. Factor in the level of concern that the possibility that a man might do it and you have women self excluding from screening at a much higher level.

That's all irrelevant if you can just tick a box stating your preference for a female or that you don't mind a male.

I have mammograms. Have done since 30.

Floisme · 05/05/2025 08:24

I’ve not read the entire thread so if this has already been discussed please ignore me but where has this ‘shorter wait’ business come from? You get a breast screening reminder every 3 years and the only time I’ve been aware of that being delayed was because of lockdown (and I understand they’ve now caught up). Has the 3 years been creeping up to 3-4 or something?

Lovelyview · 05/05/2025 08:22

MyOliveHelper · 05/05/2025 08:16

As someone in the NHS, this is how it will likely end up working. I don't mind who does mine.

It's hopefully never going to be a decision that anyone will have to make. This is a screening test which is already not a pleasant experience. You already receive a letter saying that repeated xrays can increase your risk of cancer so a mammogram itself is currently not without risk. Factor in the level of concern that the possibility that a man might do it and you have women self excluding from screening at a much higher level.

Meadowfinch · 05/05/2025 08:21

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

@whatsit84 Surely you can't be that dim !

Meadowfinch · 05/05/2025 08:18

Whoever the idiot was, who decided this would ever be acceptable, needs to get a grip. Their arrogance and stupidity have caused a lot of unnecessary harm.

They should also be removed from all policy making related to women and children. They don't have a basic understanding of the issues..

MyOliveHelper · 05/05/2025 08:16

Brefugee · 04/05/2025 22:50

i really really don't know why they just don't let you choose:

a) I'm ok with whoever does it, as long as they're qualified (poss shorter wait)
b) I want a female technician, as long as they're qualified (poss longer wait)

As someone in the NHS, this is how it will likely end up working. I don't mind who does mine.

Lovelyview · 05/05/2025 08:13

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

You're not bothered about women missing screening at even the hint that a man might be carrying it out? Possibly because they have already experienced sexual assault. Ok nasty online troll. Thanks for your contribution.

RhododendronFlowers · 05/05/2025 08:10

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Why do you think that's funny? That accusation has been frequently used against women to make them feel stupid and embarrassed.

RhododendronFlowers · 05/05/2025 08:08

peanutbuttertoasty · 04/05/2025 23:10

Why are most gynaecologists men?!

Because more men traditionally got places at medical school and were more able to specialise.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/05/2025 08:03

I was also suspicious about the timing, good call.

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 05/05/2025 07:57

LonginesPrime · 05/05/2025 04:25

Wasn’t this motion triggered by the fact they were already allowing males with a GRC to be recruited as “female” based on the confusion over how the GRA interacts with the EA for the purpose of the single-sex exemptions?

For example, this 2023 article in Radiography, the official peer-reviewed journal of the Society and College of Radiographers, written by professionals with NHS affiliations states:

However, current legislation, specifically Part 1 of Schedule 9 of the Equality Act 2010, allows employers to exclude certain protected characteristics (in this case, gender and gender reassignment) based on occupational requirements, permitting the restriction of mammography roles to females only. Furthermore, the Act sanctions the dismissal of existing employees if they no longer meet these requirements, such as a female transitioning to male. Thus, while transgender men and non-binary individuals are encouraged to participate in screening, they are effectively barred from working in breast screening roles based solely on their gender identification.

My interpretation of this (notably the second and third sentences) is that up until the SC ruling, the NHS and the Soc of Radiographers were classing transwomen with a GRC as legally female and transmen with a GRC as legally male, for the purposes of who could be employed as a mammographer in the NHS.

This would also explain the curious timing of this motion, i.e. while other medical orgs are coming out with statements about trans inclusion in light of the SC ruling, why else would one of the few professions restricted to female practitioners suddenly decide that their priority is letting males perform the role? Because they’re already doing it, but their sex in the eyes of the law has been confirmed by the SC as being based on biology instead of a certificate.

This is very insightful. I’ve copied your post over to the NHS audit group, in case any of them missed it here.

BellissimoGecko · 05/05/2025 07:52

LonginesPrime · 05/05/2025 06:10

Yes, exactly - otherwise why on earth would you need to write that letter in the first place?

The news article at the time glossed over this by saying

Gay rights campaigner Clare Dimyon, 54, went to the hospital just before Christmas last year for the mammogram, and wrote a letter requesting a natal female.

Which sounds so odd, as why would you attend an appointment and need to write a letter, especially requesting a natal female for a procedure that is only ever carried out by females?

It sounds like they deliberately missed out the key part where she was told a transwoman with a GRC (whom the NHS counted as ‘legally female’) would be doing the mammogram (especially as this was in Brighton).

Ah, that makes sense. And of course it would happen in Brighton. Pathetic.

Their statement is pretty crap too - conflating sex and gender, prioritising the feelings of men, not those of women.

ArabellaScott · 05/05/2025 07:47

NextRinny · 05/05/2025 07:38

I think institutions really underestimate how much women do not complain about men in their spaces.
Women simply don't go or time when they go. No hassle. No arguing. No need for distress. Most importantly no need to face any malesor anyone advocating for them.

All the harping on about how no one complains is pointless if the majority of the demographic is female. They won't complain. Complaints are not a measure for finding out if women are comfortable with something.

That holds true for voting and elections, too, fwiw.

Never understood why so many politicians fail to grasp reticence.

ArabellaScott · 05/05/2025 07:46

peanutbuttertoasty · 04/05/2025 22:49

“Mammography screening services will continue to prioritise compassionate, people-centred care.”

Who are these ‘people’ they are centring?

Once again this reads a little like women go fuck yourselves.

Remember when women were briefly allowed.to have 'woman centred' services?

BellissimoGecko · 05/05/2025 07:44

They only use the word ‘woman’ once in the article. Elsewhere it’s patients, those and people.

pretty easy to see whose side they are on!

i don’t want a bloke doing my breast screening. Can only imagine what pervy blokes would want to spend their days screening breasts.

Surely there are enough other opportunities for men in radiography?

NextRinny · 05/05/2025 07:38

I think institutions really underestimate how much women do not complain about men in their spaces.
Women simply don't go or time when they go. No hassle. No arguing. No need for distress. Most importantly no need to face any malesor anyone advocating for them.

All the harping on about how no one complains is pointless if the majority of the demographic is female. They won't complain. Complaints are not a measure for finding out if women are comfortable with something.

BettyFilous · 05/05/2025 07:36

mumtrovert · 04/05/2025 23:16

Male radiographers can specialise into MR, CT, Nuclear Med, Ultrasound, Reporting, Fluoroscopy, Angiography, DEXA.. there’s plenty of opportunities. I honestly highly doubt that many would choose the mammography route tbh.

Edited

Thank you for picking this up. I meant radiographer and understand the difference. I’d have no problem with a male radiologist scanning me. Their medical specialism covers all types of imaging and a breadth of conditions. A man choosing to specialise in mammography, a woman-centred service, feels different. 😕

ThunderFog · 05/05/2025 07:33

Guavafish1 · 05/05/2025 06:16

I don’t mind if a man is mammographer…

I think as long as people can choose… but i suppose it needs to change. Seems sexist

Why don't you mind? In a world where 50% of people are women, why can't mammography be restricted to female?
There is no choice where I am, sometimes there is no service. I've been screened by a woman who travelled 100 miles every day to provide the service.
Cancer cells wouldn't wait around while the boys who want to play at squashing breasts have their turn.
Maybe you don't mind a man hugging you and pushing you while squidging your boob into the machine, while you're half naked, but could you not see it would be simpler for all to be female?
Even leaving the touching aside, when they see a lump, it's a woman's shoulder I want to cry on.