Statement from the Society of Radiographers re Mammograms

There's no wait though? There aren't any shortages? So what's the reason for this?

Men's Career Rights and removing female only spaces. Are you OK with that?

I can't believe they hadn't even run it by NHS Breast Screening.

When it appeared as a news story, it totally looked like a planned press release for a policy change, with little videos of women who had had breast cancer saying they were fine with it none of whom were the ethnic minority who would obviously not be fine with it

And now surprise, it was nothing of the sort.

A Jobs for the boys option which cost the State more money by downgrading the service which exists for the sole function of saving womens lives?

Men get breast cancer too the service is only provided to women as its not cost effective to screen men.

Woman or man?
The cost of training is the same.
The cost of staffing should be the same.

The cost to the State is higher when running an ineffective screening programme so if uptake fell as 50% of the staff were men the State needs to run the numbers again and see if the service is providing value for money.

So looking at the cost which results in higher deaths rates in women of preventable deaths and in women in younger age groups and the ripple effect that has in society.

Higher treatment costs due to late detection which leads to with lower sucess rates when looking at the womans life span reduction which again has a ripple effect.

So why should the system introduce a blockage to the screening function when the aim is not employment rather screening as many women as possible.

The organisation is not proposing more roles just more role access for men in a medical field which is made less effective by having a man in the role.

Why is the organisation proposing to spend money on a person who will be less effective and less skilled over time?

The role is single sex to meet the need and want of the core person, a woman.

So a highly trained woman who can attend any appointment will encompass the full range of women who attend is the best value for money option.

Whilst I prefer a female to do the mammo, I have had a mastectomy followed by delayed re construction. This involved being examined and photographed by at least 2 male surgeons/medics, they had to get up close and personal and drew lines all over my breasts. There was always a female chaperone. I would think there is probably more male breast cancer surgeons than female.

Well yes - I noticed on one of their Facebook posts that someone had commented "this should never have been discussed outside of breast imaging"
That's a very telling remark, isn't it?

This is the SoR contact form.

https://www.sor.org/about/society-of-radiographers/contact-us

I doubt they get much contact from the public normally, so they will probably notice if they suddenly get a flood of WTFs.

I agree. This motion is just opening up discussions of options for this type flexibility.

There aren’t any separate ‘queues’. There is no ‘long wait’ for a mammogram. A man would not be able to operate alone in a room with a woman, intimately handling her breasts. Think about it-the fact that you’d need 2 members of staff in the room instead of one will not lead to shorter waiting times!

@AnSolas yes, you're so right - changing the hiring policy. No female only spaces for you! Thank you for that breakdown of the language- if you look clearly their intentions are still there, aren't they?

So, here we have a form of reverse ferret from a captured organisation. It's not really a reverse though, is it?

This started a few years ago at peak woke time with the 'inclusive' pregnancy guidelines which removed all mention of women, and this is a natural extension.

They still have the aim of advocating for men's careers in the symptomatic service, as this statement is aimed towards screening only. So, they're making sure that men can be included in the upper career brackets that have been traditionally only open to women. It's about advancing men's rights, as a PP has said.

The timing of all this seems to be more and more suspicious, and seems to be making sure that there's no female only places within healthcare. It's the vanguard. And yes, now Clare's letter makes more sense. Brighton!

They say that they don't make NHS policy. I beg to differ. The Society of Radiographers brought in the 'inclusive' pregnancy guidelines, meaning that, as a PP has mentioned, that everyone is asked if they are pregnant before an x-ray - whether they are male or not. Every radiographer has to do this. They made this NHS policy.

And no, radiographers don't have to be involved with them, and female radiographers might start to think that their trade union money might be better off elsewhere. They don't give a bugger about women's rights, clearly, and are more interested in appeasing menz hurty feelz.

Yes a jobs for boys proposal

Language :

Society of Radiographers

It does not change NHS policy and it does not mean that only male mammographers the will be employed.

• Radiographers and mammographers in NHS services continue to ensure that patient care is delivered safely, sensitively, and with respect for personal, cultural, and religious needs.

Split of professional role from the whole.
Not our members or
Radiographers who are mammographers or
mammographers in the screening service
Its 2 groups in NHS services

It is currently a career path which is not open to men on the basis of their sex.

So as a mixed sex organisation they are proposing to start a process which would result in the NHS review the woman only hire criteria

The coverage followed a motion passed at the Society of Radiographers’ Annual Delegates Conference (ADC). ADC provides members [mixed sex but whats the sex ratio if mammography is excluded ] with the opportunity to help shape the strategic direction [by opening up the role to males which reduces female jobs] of the Society. Each region and country propose motions for debate, which are voted on by delegates [turkeys voting for Christmas will happen because the "benchmark" of getting women into the workforce is that women can do the job as well as a man so voting for "female only" downgrades the "value" of the career choice which is one reason nursing wants to attract men into the profession] at the conference.

The motion in question asked the Society to explore how we could support fair access [ by 50% of staff being male] to mammography as a career, as mammography in breast screening [women in a woman only service as the UK do not screen for male breast cancer] is currently restricted to female staff [ to remove a barrier to screening as the service is aimed to screen the maximum number of women to detect a treatable cancer]

It does not change NHS policy [ rather it seeks to change the hire policy in an organisation where the "professional" staff are placed above the user] and it does not mean that only male [yet with 50% male staffing on day shift by appointment career path hospital and mobile scanning services could end up with a 100% team of male staff ] mammographers of the will be employed.

The trouble with this is it adds a whole new layer of complication and bureaucracy and potential knock on effects on the service

You would need to inform people that screening may be performed by a male mammographer and they have a choice there.
You already know that even the idea being floated in the press this week was enough to cause concern and put some women off attending screening -its not popular
Screening services also need to make sure their info is understood by the widest possible range of people - this includes those with learning difficulties, poor literacy, English as a second language - there has been a lot of work on the issues of unclear or ambigous language eg its effect on engagement with services and screening uptake. Screening also needs as a process to be made as easy as possible to attend and engage with. Behaviour around screening tests is very human, complex and can not always be described as rational: - increasing complexity of systems and the demand for more effort for a test/appointment or a higher level of possible discomfort can reduce the chances of some people engaging in something that very often doesnt seem urgent and has no clear direct personal benefit if they are asymptomatic.

An unambigous Female only service is much easier to understand than so, we run two separate lists based on your preference, choose here and people are less likely to find booking onerous/make choices. You are also less likely to get dropouts on the day when faced with a male mammographer: perhaps people turning up for appointments having not read/understood the situation and ending up with a male mammographer, making a mistake on forms/online booking or even those who think they will be OK with it but on attending their appointment realise they dont feel comfortable.

Then you need some way of managing/scheduling work rotas and appointments to run separate lists for male and female mammographers- so that needs admin and coordination time. You already know that many will not accept a male mammography: so you don't know if you will be able to effectively fill their lists or if they will end up being underutilized.
Employing males has other knock on effects on the service - due to the scheduling/acceptance issue you cant deploy a male mammographer in the same way as his female counterpart, he wont be able to do unplanned cross cover, sick leave and so on because his list needs to be confirmed in advance, he cant just sub in interchangably for a colleague. So despite employing an extra mammograper you are likely to end up with some oversubscibed (female mammographer lists), potentially undersubscribed (male mammographer lists) and a reduced flexibility in your cover overall. Thus wait times, backlogs and cancellations for those who want an all female service are likely to worsen.
It could also be seen as a form of discrimination eg offering a worse service (longer waiting times) to those who are unable or unwilling to accept a male mammographer - am sure this could be open to challanges.

I'm a radiographer by training (slightly different job role now). Here are my thoughts:

• I don't think mammography is really advertised much as a specialism to go into. Also there is a radiographer shortage generally not just for mammography.
• The Society of Radiographers are completely brainwashed by gender woo unfortunately. Obviously male middle aged patients have to be asked if they could be pregnant before performing a scan.
• The key point they should have stressed is currently mammographers do have to be female (although I didn't know that there might be trans women and that's why they may have put this motion forward)
• i also do not trust a man who wants this career
• it does sound to me from what they have said here they aren't giving up on the motion yet which is worrying!

Yes. Mammograms aren’t for people at large, they’re for women, yet even in a statement like this they can’t actually fucking say it 😡

I'm a midwife. I could have learned sonography but I find the part where you discover something wrong with the baby harrowing in my normal role (like when you listen in and can't find a heartbeat), so sonography holds no attraction for me.

However, I enjoy "check ups" generally. I like making sure the baby is fine, and then acting in a timely way when you discover they're not. So I like being a midwife.

I can understand why a radiographer might not want to perform that type of screening. The frequency of discovering and having to communicate bad news will increase.

Says somone who has clearly never had the senstitivity or awareness to understand what the years of discussion around the dignity and privacy of one's sex were about.

I came on to say the same as LonginesPrime said - this must have been prompted because transwomen are no longer legally considered women for this same-sex service. From the issues, highlighted by pp, in Brighton, it seems clear (and unsurprising) that the NHS has already been allowing transwomen to perform screening mammograms, and someone, somewhere is trying to find a way to allow this to continue.

For those saying they don’t care, I summarise some points already made:

• with small numbers of mammographers in each area, hiring 1 man will probably increase the proportion of male mammographer above the proportion of women who find it acceptable, worsening the service for other women (and probably leaving the male mammographers somewhat under-employed)
• this could lead to women feeling pressured to accept a male or be seen to be ‘putting their life at risk’
• training male mammographers takes away training places for women
• there is no indication that there is a shortage of women who want these jobs, just an ‘unfairness’ that men can’t do them
• if men do the job, they will need a chaperone, increasing the cost of the service

@@whatsit84
What a thicko ignorant comment

Pathetic and childish comment. How old are you? Presumably still young enough to only consider men in terms of whether they fancy you. Or not someone capable of any real thought or leap of imagination why older women don’t want their breasts manhandled by a man.

Routine mammograms in the uk are given to women in their 50s 60s and early 70s. We are past simpering about whether men fancy us. We have had a lot of life experiences, including traumatic ones. This is about dignity and feeling safe, and we absolutely deserve that without all the laughing emojis from shallow minded idiots.

Grow up.

They really didn't. They made you lie on your back so they didn't have to bend over

A clear example of why women are self-excluding from an essential health check. Women fancy other women too, but if it’s an all-women situation you’re not worrying about sexual assault.

I suspect that the media has been wilfully shit stirring......as this headline came straight after the coverage of the supreme court ruling regards to male access to female only facilities. I'm sure this has been discussed in professional circles for some time, but the timing of the article indicates that its purpose was to agitate rather than enlighten.

Well if the only woman scheduled to work is off sick, then the chances of someone being able to cover at short notice in the NHS is low. Where would this other woman practitioner be conjured from?

I suspect it’s to explain why this change is suddenly needed rather than admitting that it’s needed in light of the SC ruling because they’ve fucked by incorrectly classing transwomen as “female” when recruiting for mammographers for several years.

That’s the interesting question.