Statement from the Society of Radiographers re Mammograms

Hear, hear.

See also universities and politicians.

This is really the crux of the issue from a PP the screening services role is to increase screening rates, not increase mens career opportunities.

The NHS seems to be run by people thinking its entire purpose is about validating their identity, career, personal ambitions (even if those ambitions are overriding women's consent) and /or the Union's power. Not about patients.

That's the big problem here.

I mean it would be really 'inclusive' to employ minority demographics who actually aren't qualified. If it's mostly about 'inclusion' rather than patient care, why not do that?

And the male mammographer will being paid for doing nothing a lot of the time, lovely for him, and when he is actively employed he'll probably be worse at his job because he doesn't do it so often.

If zero patients will accept a male mammographer (and I bet it's close to this if they bothered asking what patients would actually prefer) then what's the point of training or employing them? Plenty of other career paths available to men.

If you go to Facebook and search for the Society and College of Radiographers it comes up under All, it's the top one - there are 209 comments.

Where are you seeing these posts?

A lot of posts about this on the SoR page - seems the majority’s in favour of the service remaining as it is. A few posts calling out the SoR for deleting previous posts against the motion.

I think I found Jack. And Jack's alright.

And seems to not care if any other female might be uncomfortable in the same situations.

So much lack of empathy whilst being kind to the men who need a career. Pff.

I'll dm you

@KnottyAuty I don't think there's any data, as I have said.

But we're now looking at the possibility that males are already employed as they have self ID into the role.

I found some sort of editorial on the subject here Is it still a genuine occupational requirement to have a female only mammographic workforce in breast screening? - Radiography

It did say that there is 'an unpublished study'. Was it not published because it didn't give the activists the answer they wanted? Can you tell? Can you find it somewhere?

The articles also says: Additionally, the Society of Radiographers underscores that radiographers and sonographers perform obstetric, gynaecological, and urological examinations regardless of gender, rendering the exclusion of male radiographers from breast screening units nonsensical.

So I think we can see where the SOR stands here. The SOR is not for women.

More than that the NHS is a 'equal' employer [either sex can do any job so 50/50 split aim is proof of equality] so they now have a PR problem 100% women only and now hiring men

With 2 equal hires 1 woman 1 man do they keep the 100% or aim for 50/50.

They have to be seen to be equal so managers will opt for the man as they are a "minority group".

The "10%" are not demanding men in the service just ok if it happens.

And to justify the 50/50 objective the managers start running capacity and womens choice data collection to justify why the "90%" of women are not as important as the internal reporting metric and keeping the Union "happy".

And already the messaging against women is there: the basic principle that women need to accept their wishes and needs have limits and be reasonable (and accept men), that they need to be 'educated' out of their privacy and dignity (to benefit men).

The result being that women are thoroughly educated and the ones who can cope with mixed sex will go on having services, the ones who can't will either suffer during the service or just not turn up. Women become a two tier class, where those who accept men can have things that those who need women only cannot.

Who gains anything? Not women in need of the service.

Add the increased administration costs of managing service-users who will or won’t accept a male mammographers, and the issues of a male mammographers not being able to cover for colleagues.

Once its allowed to be a mix sex profession, it cannot be made into a mainly women one. Either naturally or because of equal opportunity initiatives.

The nhs cannot limit it to only one man in a team. Therefore if it turns out that 90% of women do want a women radiographer, and only 10% arent bothered, they have created an admin problem.

Once again for those who haven’t RTFT

There is no suggestion that it is not possible to recruit enough women, the suggestion is that it is unfair to prevent men accessing these roles

Recruiting men won’t increase the number of screenings done, there is no suggestion that there will be extra resources; just that some of the training and some of the roles would go to men instead of women.

Most women prefer female only, some women have to have female only, some women genuinely don’t care - and while that is a valid view, it isn’t valid to imply that therefore nobody else should care either

I am sorry you had this diagnosis. I presume the initial screening was done by a woman.

Why do you want the choice to pick a man to carryout your screening?

Pricing a man in the role

Why would the NHS not be able to hire women into staff a day shift service which is by appointment but would get a man?

Do you expect that 100% - 50% - 25% of the women on a given day would accept an appointment if they knew it would be a man rather than a woman?

If you think its less than 100% how is the service going to manage having a man?

Will he have his own special letter?

If you accept do you for future appointments get put on a special list which is managed indepenedent of the general list?

How will the service manage the women who dont reply to the invite
• send a new invite for him or
• send an invite for a woman led team?

How will they make sure that the women who turn up on the day know its a man and at what stage should that happen?

Do we need the choice? Are there women who dont go to screening because its performed by women?

When all of the HCP are women, we dont need to worry about freeing anyone up for those who want female care. Its a more efficient service.

For screening, women aren't symptomatic, getting maximum numbers through the door is the key, so if male mammography are a barrier to some women then provide a female only service as that meets everyone's needs AND best supports the objective of maximum numbers through the door.

Once women are on a 2ww pathway, or are post-diagnosis, male clinicians may cease to be an issue for many, for obvious reasons that the focus shifts to diagnosis and treatment.

For some of us I'm afraid there are sometimes reasons it continues to be an issue, even when staring down that barrel of suspected or diagnosed cancer. Which is why trauma informed, patient-centred care is important. I'm so glad your requests for female clinicians have been honoured @LaLoba but I'm sorry you've had to explain and justify some of the requests.

I had a 2ww referral to the breast clinic (I was lucky; it wasn't cancer) and the receptionist was very understanding when I rang beforehand. And 12 years earlier the same hospital were phenomenal during my pregnancy and childbirth - a fabulous all female team supported us, including in theatre for a c-section.

Professionals in healthcare know how to read between the lines, it's absolutely not necessary to make you go through having to spell out traumatic history to a stranger on a switchboard or reception desk.

And it is outrageous that we are now being gaslit with a load of BS about the wider context of staff shortages in radiography (which you don't fix just by moving some men across to breast screening clinics leaving vacant posts elsewhere), and outrageous that women are being scared into backing the motion and fighting each other for fear their cancer won't be caught in time.

I also think there’s a big difference between screening procedures and being in a hospital setting undergoing further review or treatment. When I had my children I had some male doctors and nurses involved, under those circumstances I didn’t really care as long as my baby was ok. However, I would always request a female for smears and breast screening. When I’ve had my mammograms I’ve literally had the radiographer with her chest to my back reaching round to get the correct position for the breast, it’s extremely intimate but they've always been lovely at putting me at ease, I’m not convinced a man could do so in that situation.

How would that work at the mobile unit?

For the hard of thinking.

I don't mind my breast examination being carried out by a lesbian (not that I'd know, but that's not the point)

I do mind having my breast examination carried out by a biological man (no matter whether his head tilts or not).

I would rather more services were female only.

They should just give us a choice. Some women, like me, don’t have a problem with a man doing this. This frees up the female mammographers for the women who prefer to have a female mammographer..

But not your routine screening mammogram. As I said, what happened to you during your treatment for breast cancer is not relevant to routine screening.

Very fortunately I have never had a cancer diagnosis although I’ve been referred 3 times under the 2ww and have had both males and females carrying out different parts of the process. A male carried out one of the fine needle aspirations and another felt for the lump. I was scared, naturally - and whilst I wanted it over and done with if I’d of had the choice I would have far preferred a female at every step of the process. The choice was not there that day. Each 2ww appointment at the hospital has been a completely different experience from the routine screening mammogram.

I’ve faced a diagnosis, and the treatment. I put off going to the GP with the lump for nearly a year because I knew how hostile (nurses in particular) could be to women who ask for a female doctor. The Breast Care nurses and surgery team were incredibly understanding, even ensured an all female theatre, despite me having told them that I had no problems with males being present while I was under anaesthesia as the theatre environment has safety in numbers and it was my post traumatic reaction that was an issue for me.

During radiotherapy a male radiologist sexually harassed me, and the reaction of his female colleagues made it clear I wasn’t the first. Even after the team provided all female care for me every step of the way, some creep saw that as a challenge and I had to shout at him to get out of the room while I was undressed.

For the benefit of the crass earlier poster, hardly anyone fancies me, I’m not the pretty young thing I used to be. It doesn’t stop men who get off on violating women’s boundaries.

In every aftercare clinic for 5 years the nurses in the clinic have demanded explanations in the waiting room as to why I insisted on seeing a woman doctor, of which there are no shortages in breast care in my area. Hospitals aren’t any safer for women than anywhere else, and I’m not going to trust an unknown man anymore than anywhere else. I will not have intimate care or examinations done by a man, no matter what the stakes.

I will turn up and fight for my right to be seen by a woman, which many women can’t do.