Amendment to Data Bill to revert all gender markers and out all trans people

Wouldn't it be refreshing if people like TruthInTransition said oh yes, I see your point. Two thousand men rampaging through London screaming at women and defacing their statues isn't a good look. I can understand why you might be concerned when they're in your daughter's toilet.

Let's campaign for unisex spaces.

There is no justification for men (what you mean when you say 'transwomen') to be in women's spaces.

So once again, no. Stop bothering women and show them basic respect.

Firstly, please try to write authentically vs getting ChatGpt to do it for you.

Secondly, no, it isn't bigotry to centre women (adult human females) in feminism. It is not “gatekeeping” to say that women have the right to keep and defend our own spaces, our rights, and our reality.

The endless emotional appeals and accusations of hate are just abusive gaslighting designed to silence women who dare to speak the truth (just like we suffer every day from men in general).

Trans women aren't women. They are trans identifying males. They have not lived female socialization, they are not subject to female biology, and they do not experience the lifelong systemic oppression that feminism was built to fight.

Dress however you want, have whatever surgery you like. Refer to yourself amongst your circle as your pronouns you prefer. But none of that changes the reality and it should not mean that you can barge into our spaces at whim.

We are constantly told to be kind, to be inclusive, to make room. But women fought for generations to have rights based on our sex. Not on identity. Not on feelings. And certainly not to be told that speaking about the REALITY of male violence is somehow hatespeech. To say that trans identifying males don't commit sexual and violent crimes is just another instance of denying reality. Gaslighting.

And we do not make “blanket assumptions.” We are intelligent enough to see patterns of male violence with our own eyeballs and we know that self-ID allows predators to exploit legal loopholes. That isn’t fear-mongering—it’s bloody reality.

Look at the cases in women’s prisons, shelters, sports, and changing rooms. The stories of vulnerable women being asked to LEAVE spaces THEY need in favour of protecting the feelings of men. Women who have been subjected to male violence and misogyny, expected to once again fawn and placate men.

At the risk of sounding a bit childish for a moment... It is FUCKING UNFAIR.

Trans women have every right to live safely and free from HARM. I do not hate anyone. I don't care how anyone dresses, but I begin to care when my safety starts being impacted. When my rights start being erroded.

As someone who was sexually abused as a child by a man, sexually assaulted as a teen by a man, roofied and attempted rape by a man, not to mention countless times of sexual harassment, intimidation and misogyny, I have every right to be fearful. In fact it would be illogical if I wasn't.

This is not a zero-sum game where women must sacrifice everything so no one’s feelings are hurt. It’s not our job to pretend that males are women to protect anyone’s ego.

You say “the word woman is not a threat.” But it’s not just a word—it’s a reality. A word rooted in our biology, and in centuries of oppression unique to females.

We are born into womanhood—we do not choose it. It defines a life shaped by systemic disadvantage, not identity. You scoff when we defend the word, claim it’s “just semantics,” yet fight fiercely to take it. If it’s just a word, why is it so important to you—and so silly to us?

Because it’s not just a word. It’s a political category and you all know very well that if you take our word, you can take everything else. It belongs to the people who were born into it, along with the violence, medical misogyny, economic inequality, and social conditioning that come with it.

Even trans-identified males who transition young are still biologically male, socialised as boys, and carry the benefits of that development in a patriarchal society.

You say you’re not trying to erase us. But when you demand our language, our spacea our legal protections, and then call us bigots for resisting—that is erasure. That is misogyny.

Feminism is for women. Not for males who want to co-opt our identity. Not for men who buy into gender stereotypes and think that makes them a woman. Not for entitled men who have no idea what it is like to be a eoman raped by a man, demanding access to rape shelters.

Not for individuals who threaten, dox, and abuse women for stating basic biological facts.

We will not be shamed, gaslit or manipulated into submission. We see what’s happening and we are not playing along!!!

I have encountered 3 trans identifying males in my life. The first the adult child of a family friend. This person was extremely sexually inappropriate but called himself "one of the girls". He wore clothes that normal wouldn't wear and was very provocative, daring people say soemthing. He was verbally abusive to his mother who he bossed around and he didn't lift a finger to help her (conveniently opting in and out of what women "should" be doing when it fancied him).

The second was in the post office. He cornered me in an aisle, lifted up his dress and showed me his penis through his white lace panties. This was extremely traumatising for me given my history.

And the third person started a campaign of online gate against tme when I expressed some of my views on an online platform. He sent me the most vile, disgusting messages and threats. He told me that I was on a list that is shared around, where they work together to find out our information so they can teach us a lesson.

He told me that I would be kept in a basement and beaten and tied up.

I'm sorry, but that is only a threat a man would make. How am I supposed to pretend that a woman was threstening me with those things?

I have come accross other trans identifying males in passing out in general life. The experiences have ranged from uncomfortable to scary.

I have not had a single truly positive interaction. Not one.

Edit: it is a fact that women commit far fewer sexual and violent crimes than men. It is a fact that trans identifying males commit more sexual crimes than women.

It is exceedingly important for the safety of women that we do not have these statistics muddied by lumping in trans identifying males with our numbers. This WILL have a huge affect on our ability to advocate for ourselves and you know it.

Your comment is just one big straw man argument.

i find it funny a man claiming to be a woman is accusing women of reducing people to stereotypes. The irony meter just exploded.

Do you use women’s toilets, changing rooms etc?

If so, doesn’t that mean you are “unfairly painting an entire population with the brush of your personal grievances”? Why are you avoiding men, unless, by your own words you are “reducing people to stereotypes, projecting blame on entire communities, and justifying hatred”?

This widespread misunderstanding needs to be addressed clearly: when trans women identify as women, we are not claiming to be cisgender. We are not attempting to erase biological distinctions, nor are we trying to appropriate someone else’s identity.

"Has anyone told India Willoughby?"

or Beth Upton, or Rachel McKinnon??

I think this poster is behind the times

It was used to keep Black people out of schools. To keep women out of voting booths. And now, it’s being used to keep trans women from being seen, heard, and safe.

Women didn’t gain access to voting booths by pretending and blending in with men though. We fought for our own rights and spaces.

the Immensely self centred word salad shouts male @TruthInTransition

the answer is still no

you’re not a woman

we want our stuff back

and obviously peoples sex should be recorded

Quite.

No, TruthInTransition, as any Mumsnetter knows, is a complete sentence

Oh look, another man has appeared and is trying to erase women. What a surprise.

This widespread misunderstanding needs to be addressed clearly: when trans women identify as women, we are not claiming to be cisgender. We are not attempting to erase biological distinctions, nor are we trying to appropriate someone else’s identity.

Has anyone told India Willoughby?

If you're truly concerned about justice and safety, focus on the individuals committing the crimes—not on tarring an entire group

But that’s not how safeguarding works. Nobody thinks that all males are dangerous, but it is recognised the male sex is more dangerous than the female sex. So we have single sex spaces to protect women, instead of including men on a case by case basis.

Your message unfairly paints an entire population with the brush of your personal grievances. That is not only irresponsible—it’s dangerous. You are attributing the actions of a few individuals, real or alleged, to an entire marginalized community. That’s not justice. That’s scapegoating.

I am a trans woman. I’ve been battered by a cisgender woman in a relationship. Should I now assume all cis women are violent? Should we judge every cis woman by the actions of Nicola Murray, a convicted child abuser? No. Because I understand that people are individuals, not political talking points or collective enemies. I am bigger than hate. I choose not to engage in bigotry, even when I have reason to feel hurt.

What you’re doing—making sweeping, incendiary claims about people you don’t know—is not just morally wrong. It could also be legally questionable. Do you have evidence? Names? Documentation? Or are you repeating narratives designed to inflame and vilify?

We must be better than this. Reducing people to stereotypes, projecting blame on entire communities, and justifying hatred with anecdote is not the path to progress. It's the path to division and dehumanization. You may feel justified, but that doesn’t make it just.

It’s TWAW bingo bank holiday!

The reality is this: trans women exist. We live as women, we are treated as women by society, and we face the same misogyny, threats, and discrimination—often compounded by our trans identity.
What you’re advocating isn’t about preserving language—it’s about exclusion. And exclusion, under the guise of “shared reality,” has always been a tool of oppression. It was used to keep Black people out of schools. To keep women out of voting booths. And now, it’s being used to keep trans women from being seen, heard, and safe.
You don’t get to decide who is or isn’t valid ANYMORE! based on your discomfort. Your beliefs do not override our existence
Your victimhood alongside a smattering of misogyny is shining through now. We see you, we hear you, we know you exist. But you’re not women, no matter how loud you shout.

Men can't become women @TruthInTransition and no, men shouldn't have access to women's single sex spaces and services.

Thats the bottom line. Everything else is just lies, noise, emotional manipulation, tantrums. We're done with all that, understood?

Is there a script? I’m sure I’ve seen a rant like this lately on another thread. It’s a bit sad when the ploppers can’t even come up with original posts. @TruthInTransition you can do better I’m sure.

Once, “marriage” only meant a union between a man and a woman. Once, “voter” excluded women entirely. Should we have stopped evolving then too
Marriage and voting are legal processes - nothing to do with evolution. Sex, however, is a biological process that humans cannot change. We’ll stick with the word woman and the definition ‘adult human female’ thanks very much.

You don’t get to decide who is or isn’t valid ANYMORE!

If by valid do you mean the opposite sex, i'm afraid the Supreme Court disagree with you. Transwomen are men. Biologically and legally, and must stay out of spaces designated for women.

If you don't like it, take it up with Stonewall first, and then have a word with all the transwomen who tried to pretend lesbians can be men.

The Supreme Court took a very dim view of men trying to erase homosexuality.

Language evolves naturally. What you all attempted to do was to coerce, bully and force language change that goes against everyone's natural instincts.

No man can experience womanhood.

Thanks for your insight @TruthInTransition . However, a few pointers - there’s no such thing as a ‘cis’ woman. There are women - adult human females, and men - adult human males. Some of those males and females will be gender non-conforming and want to be seen as the opposite sex. They are still, and always be male or female as sex is immutable. Similarly, there is no need for the term ‘birth sex’ for the same reason. Ones sex never changes.
When the % of sex offenders currently held in the prison estate has such a high number of men who identify as women compared to sex offenders who don’t, then it’s only right to be questioning as to their motivations. Sex offenders will use any avenue possible to access their victims, including self ID.
Your argument that having to put one’s ’birth Sex’ on legal documents will ‘out’ people is laughable. Firstly, why should ones sex be hidden like some dirty little secret? After all, we almost always clock someone who’s presenting as if they were the opposite sex. And if we don’t, if someone ‘passes’, that’s ok. We should be able to get to a point where a man can openly say ‘I’m male but prefer to ascribe to female gender stereotypes’. We no longer expect gay people to ‘stay in the closet’, so why should we accept gender non conforming people to do so? What are they hiding exactly?
You say and trans women, like all women, navigate life through a lens shaped by society, by gender, and often by adversity however, a male who identifies as a woman isn’t a woman, and in reality every human navigates life through a lens shaped by society, by gender regardless as to their sex.

so go on then @TruthInTransition what is a woman? If a woman is not an adult human female,what is the thing that makes a woman a woman? I men, if you remove biology from the equation, you’re relying on outdated sexist stereotypes and misogynistic men claiming they know what a woman is because of feelings aren’t you?

Aside from the fact that I’d bet ChatGPT wrote this, where is your compassion and consideration for women?

“To consistently refer to us as men is not only deeply disrespectful—it is discriminatory”

Women have needs separate to men. Regardless of your gender identity, your presence in women-only provision destroys the women-only bit precisely because you are a man. Not only do you want to eliminate women-only services and spaces - our sex based rights - you want us to be able to stop being able to even name the problem by forbidding us from calling you men. That’s an awful lot to take from women to benefit men, and if you cannot even acknowledge there is an issue, you are just colonisers and not contributing to “A just society […] that listens, learns, and evolves”

@TruthInTransition If you were born male then you are male now. It's not "discriminatory" to state a fact. How about if I said "Biological males deciding they want to invade female-only spaces is a conscious choice to invalidate our identities and erase our humanity." ? Is that a good argument?

Your definition of “woman” may be based on a narrow, biological framework—but womanhood, like all human identity, is far more nuanced than anatomy.

You claim the word “woman” refers only to “adult human females,” as if that ends the conversation. But definitions evolve with society. Language is not static—it reflects how we understand people, experiences, and humanity. Once, “marriage” only meant a union between a man and a woman. Once, “voter” excluded women entirely. Should we have stopped evolving then too?

Trans women are not “twisting” words—we are living our truths. Recognizing trans women as women doesn’t erase or override anyone else’s identity. It expands our understanding of womanhood to include the diverse ways it is lived and experienced. That is not an insult—it is progress.

You say it’s “insulting” for trans women to be included in womanhood. But what’s truly insulting is the suggestion that trans women don’t deserve dignity, don’t deserve recognition, don’t deserve safety—because we don’t fit your personal criteria. That’s not about facts. That’s about fear.

The reality is this: trans women exist. We live as women, we are treated as women by society, and we face the same misogyny, threats, and discrimination—often compounded by our trans identity.

What you’re advocating isn’t about preserving language—it’s about exclusion. And exclusion, under the guise of “shared reality,” has always been a tool of oppression. It was used to keep Black people out of schools. To keep women out of voting booths. And now, it’s being used to keep trans women from being seen, heard, and safe.

You don’t get to decide who is or isn’t valid ANYMORE! based on your discomfort. Your beliefs do not override our existence.

Trans women are not erasing anyone. We are not stealing anything. We are demanding to live, fully and authentically, in a world that has tried again and again to deny us that right.

So no—we’re not twisting words. We’re speaking truth. And if that truth threatens your worldview, maybe it’s your worldview that needs to change.

We are not asking for special treatment

What is the right to alter your birth certificate if not special treatment?

Woman - this word is not yours. It’s ours, and we’re keeping it.