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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Amendment to Data Bill to revert all gender markers and out all trans people

412 replies

bluegoldflow · 02/05/2025 22:07

Hoping this passes, it shouldn't be possible to change your sex (a biological impossibility) on legal documents. This would prevent men using this loop hole to erase their past identities and stop male crimes being recorded as female crimes.

Amendment to Data Bill to revert all gender markers and out all trans people
Amendment to Data Bill to revert all gender markers and out all trans people
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Hoppinggreen · 05/05/2025 11:40

FlippinFumin · 05/05/2025 07:58

You just have to note the length and tone of the post to know it was definitely written by a man. But, you know, we cannot tell a man from a woman. It is all so complicated. Give over with yourself, as my Dad would say, we can not only tell a man from a mile away, we can when they are nowhere near us. It is all so mansplainy.

Its hilarious
They think we can't spot a man in real life when we can actually do it even when they are just on a keyboard probably hundreds of miles away.

Hoppinggreen · 05/05/2025 11:35

@TruthInTransition
All I needed to read from your post was your initial use of the word "Cis" and I could guess the rest

TheKeatingFive · 05/05/2025 11:34

IleftmybaginNewportPagnell · 05/05/2025 11:28

It wasn’t a lovely day out, I was there for hours and didn’t see any of that so couldn’t challenge. I wouldn’t agree that all are lovely, as I’ve already explained I was there quietly supporting those I care about. Sadly, I don’t feel comfortable saying more due to the vitriol shown here. I’ve already had to report one post which was vulgar and personal, though the poster knows nothing about me.

So much 'vitriol' on here apparently, that you have to excuse yourself, yet amongst clear and demonstrable vitriol at the Protest you seemed able to turn blind eyes in all directions.

Funny that

CleaningSilverCandlesticks · 05/05/2025 11:33

Annoyedone · 05/05/2025 11:31

Could have been worse, you could have had men shouting in your face, been punched, threatened with rape or death or had soup thrown over you for daring to attend an event about your rights. I mean, where were all the GC protestors shutting the event down? Or is it only the TRA who employ those tactics?

It is always telling which way the police are facing when women gather to talk.

Annoyedone · 05/05/2025 11:31

IleftmybaginNewportPagnell · 05/05/2025 11:28

It wasn’t a lovely day out, I was there for hours and didn’t see any of that so couldn’t challenge. I wouldn’t agree that all are lovely, as I’ve already explained I was there quietly supporting those I care about. Sadly, I don’t feel comfortable saying more due to the vitriol shown here. I’ve already had to report one post which was vulgar and personal, though the poster knows nothing about me.

Could have been worse, you could have had men shouting in your face, been punched, threatened with rape or death or had soup thrown over you for daring to attend an event about your rights. I mean, where were all the GC protestors shutting the event down? Or is it only the TRA who employ those tactics?

CleaningSilverCandlesticks · 05/05/2025 11:29

IleftmybaginNewportPagnell · 05/05/2025 11:22

Yes I was there and didn’t see that sign or anything aggressive.

Given it is clear there were such signs, the fact you didn’t observe them or anything aggressive clearly does not mean they did not happen

Annoyedone · 05/05/2025 11:28

WaffleParty · 05/05/2025 11:26

Beautifully written and well-considered.
Unfortunately it will not be well received on Mumsnet, but be assured there are plenty of cis women in the real world who understand that trans women pose no threat and deserve support and understanding.
Brave to post on here!

Stunning and brave to the max 😂😂😂

IleftmybaginNewportPagnell · 05/05/2025 11:28

Annoyedone · 05/05/2025 11:20

It’s so funny that all these posters who were at that demo having a lovely day out didn’t see the criminal damage, public urination or the many signs threatening women but would definitely have challenged them. I mean, what are women worried about? All trans people are lovely and would never hurt a fly and are just sooooo oppressed and marginalised. Women should just give up their rights and let these delicate little flowers into our spaces for our own good. It’ll be in our best interests in the long run and we’ll all live happily in harmony and joy. 😂😂😂😂😂😂

It wasn’t a lovely day out, I was there for hours and didn’t see any of that so couldn’t challenge. I wouldn’t agree that all are lovely, as I’ve already explained I was there quietly supporting those I care about. Sadly, I don’t feel comfortable saying more due to the vitriol shown here. I’ve already had to report one post which was vulgar and personal, though the poster knows nothing about me.

Annoyedone · 05/05/2025 11:27

Maybe what women should do is…. We all identify as flowers. I mean, there was an effort to protect flowers at the March (apparently) so if we all identify as flowers, we’ll get protection from those trying to trample on us. Bagsy being a foxglovegender.

WaffleParty · 05/05/2025 11:26

TruthInTransition · 05/05/2025 07:13

It's deeply unfair and dangerous to judge an entire community based on the actions of a few individuals. When someone commits a crime, they—and only they—should be held responsible. No one blames all cis women for the crimes of one (Nicola Murray for Child Abuse) to be like-minded, so why is it acceptable to do that to trans women?

Weaponizing the actions of a few people (some of whom may not even be genuinely trans) to smear thousands of innocent trans women who are simply trying to live their lives is nothing short of bigotry. It's the same flawed logic that has fueled racism, sexism, and homophobia for generations.

If you're truly concerned about justice and safety, focus on the individuals committing the crimes—not on tarring an entire group. Blanket assumptions like yours aren’t protecting anyone; they’re just spreading fear and hate.

Trans women are not a threat to cis women. Bigotry, misinformation, and scapegoating are the real threats to a fair and compassionate society.

What’s worse is that anti-trans activists are now pushing for our birth sex to be listed on official documents, which would effectively out trans women in every public setting—at work, at the doctor’s, when travelling, even at a checkout counter. This is a direct violation of our right to privacy and safety. The Equality Act exists to protect us from exactly this kind of discrimination, yet some are working to undermine it under the guise of 'safety'—while actually putting us in harm’s way. Heres a rhetorical question and try to be honest with yourselves

Let me ask a rhetorical question—and I urge you to answer it honestly in your heart:

How many of you have ever truly known, spoken to, or spent time with a trans woman who simply wants to live her life like any other woman? How many of you genuinely understand the emotional, social, and physical toll we endure just to exist peacefully in a world that questions our humanity at every turn?

The word “woman” is not a threat. It is not a battleground. It is a shared identity that reflects a lived experience—and trans women, like all women, navigate life through a lens shaped by society, by gender, and often by adversity. The fear some people express over trans women using the term "woman" reveals not a concern for safety but a deep-rooted discomfort with inclusion and equality. That discomfort is not our burden to carry.

This widespread misunderstanding needs to be addressed clearly: when trans women identify as women, we are not claiming to be cisgender. We are not attempting to erase biological distinctions, nor are we trying to appropriate someone else’s identity. We are simply stating the truth of our own lived realities. We are trans women—and we are proud of that fact.

We are not asking for special treatment. We are demanding basic human decency. The right to live authentically. The right to be recognized accurately. The right not to be misgendered or dismissed because of ignorance or prejudice.

To consistently refer to us as men is not only deeply disrespectful—it is discriminatory. It is a conscious choice to invalidate our identities and erase our humanity. If you refuse to acknowledge us as trans women, you are not just disagreeing—you are actively engaging in dehumanization.

This isn’t a matter of opinion. This is about dignity, safety, and truth. If your advocacy for women’s rights excludes trans women, then it is not truly about equality—it is about gatekeeping. And if your language reduces us to something we are not, then it’s not just wrong. It’s dangerous.

A just society is one that listens, learns, and evolves. It doesn’t cling to outdated fears; it builds a future where everyone—cis, trans, or otherwise—can live with respect, safety, and equality.

Beautifully written and well-considered.
Unfortunately it will not be well received on Mumsnet, but be assured there are plenty of cis women in the real world who understand that trans women pose no threat and deserve support and understanding.
Brave to post on here!

BackToLurk · 05/05/2025 11:24

IleftmybaginNewportPagnell · 05/05/2025 11:14

Well yes - I was going to add to my post that I would’ve felt unhappy if I’d seen that sign and challenged them, but didn’t want to derail this thread. The police did a good job I thought. FWIW I HATE the term cis. The people I care about know I’ll have their backs, I read these threads occasionally to see the challenges they’re up against. Probably shouldn’t, it’s upsetting. I’m not radical just an issue very close to me.

Are you unhappy that apparently no one challenged it. Or maybe everyone had the same vision problems

Annoyedone · 05/05/2025 11:23

IleftmybaginNewportPagnell · 05/05/2025 11:22

Yes I was there and didn’t see that sign or anything aggressive.

Hmmm. My grandma had a saying about that….

BackToLurk · 05/05/2025 11:22

Annoyedone · 05/05/2025 11:20

It’s so funny that all these posters who were at that demo having a lovely day out didn’t see the criminal damage, public urination or the many signs threatening women but would definitely have challenged them. I mean, what are women worried about? All trans people are lovely and would never hurt a fly and are just sooooo oppressed and marginalised. Women should just give up their rights and let these delicate little flowers into our spaces for our own good. It’ll be in our best interests in the long run and we’ll all live happily in harmony and joy. 😂😂😂😂😂😂

I suppose if you spend your life pretending that you can't see that a man is obviously a man then you get used to just not seeing what's right in front of your eyes.

IleftmybaginNewportPagnell · 05/05/2025 11:22

CleaningSilverCandlesticks · 05/05/2025 11:17

So you were there and didn’t see it?

Yes I was there and didn’t see that sign or anything aggressive.

Annoyedone · 05/05/2025 11:20

It’s so funny that all these posters who were at that demo having a lovely day out didn’t see the criminal damage, public urination or the many signs threatening women but would definitely have challenged them. I mean, what are women worried about? All trans people are lovely and would never hurt a fly and are just sooooo oppressed and marginalised. Women should just give up their rights and let these delicate little flowers into our spaces for our own good. It’ll be in our best interests in the long run and we’ll all live happily in harmony and joy. 😂😂😂😂😂😂

Puttinginthemiles · 05/05/2025 11:19

TruthInTransition · 05/05/2025 07:50

Your message unfairly paints an entire population with the brush of your personal grievances. That is not only irresponsible—it’s dangerous. You are attributing the actions of a few individuals, real or alleged, to an entire marginalized community. That’s not justice. That’s scapegoating.

I am a trans woman. I’ve been battered by a cisgender woman in a relationship. Should I now assume all cis women are violent? Should we judge every cis woman by the actions of Nicola Murray, a convicted child abuser? No. Because I understand that people are individuals, not political talking points or collective enemies. I am bigger than hate. I choose not to engage in bigotry, even when I have reason to feel hurt.

What you’re doing—making sweeping, incendiary claims about people you don’t know—is not just morally wrong. It could also be legally questionable. Do you have evidence? Names? Documentation? Or are you repeating narratives designed to inflame and vilify?

We must be better than this. Reducing people to stereotypes, projecting blame on entire communities, and justifying hatred with anecdote is not the path to progress. It's the path to division and dehumanization. You may feel justified, but that doesn’t make it just.

You're being deliberately obtuse. It's almost exclusively males who make us feel uncomfortable, unsafe, abuse, assault, rape and murder us. Our issue is with males. Trans identifying males have pushed their way into single sex female spaces. We want them back (and never should have been forced to give them up in the first place). Now we have them back thanks to the SC ruling.

We deserve single sex spaces. Shame on you for thinking otherwise.

Waitwhat23 · 05/05/2025 11:19

Difference is, if equivalent signs had been displayed at a women's rights event (and they never have btw), they would have immediately been challenged by many women saying 'what the fuck are you doing? That's horrendous!'.

The fact there were multiple signs, at multiple events and they don't seem to have been challenged at all, by anyone, tells it's own story.

Even the Police were like 'ah, well, they're signs from a past event nbd' until the time and location stamps were pointed out.

CompleteGinasaur · 05/05/2025 11:18

MagpiePi · 05/05/2025 09:22

Like Louis XI’s pig piano?

Male Chauvinist Pig piano, maybe?

CleaningSilverCandlesticks · 05/05/2025 11:17

IleftmybaginNewportPagnell · 05/05/2025 11:14

Well yes - I was going to add to my post that I would’ve felt unhappy if I’d seen that sign and challenged them, but didn’t want to derail this thread. The police did a good job I thought. FWIW I HATE the term cis. The people I care about know I’ll have their backs, I read these threads occasionally to see the challenges they’re up against. Probably shouldn’t, it’s upsetting. I’m not radical just an issue very close to me.

So you were there and didn’t see it?

FloatingSquirrel · 05/05/2025 11:14

Brainworm · 05/05/2025 10:58

Im not saying that sex never needs to be recorded. My point is that where certified sex and/or self identified sex are considered appropriate alternatives to record instead of sex, it seems hard to believe their was sufficient justification for recording sex in the first place.

The only reason self identified sex was recorded was the push for people to follow that belief system as real. It doesn't mean sex being recorded wasn't necessary.

IleftmybaginNewportPagnell · 05/05/2025 11:14

BackToLurk · 05/05/2025 11:04

..and the fact that not one person appeared to challenge their fellow flower-protecting marchers? Is that abhorrent too?

Well yes - I was going to add to my post that I would’ve felt unhappy if I’d seen that sign and challenged them, but didn’t want to derail this thread. The police did a good job I thought. FWIW I HATE the term cis. The people I care about know I’ll have their backs, I read these threads occasionally to see the challenges they’re up against. Probably shouldn’t, it’s upsetting. I’m not radical just an issue very close to me.

RegimentalSturgeon · 05/05/2025 11:13

If you lined them up in ascending order of pitch of voice, then showed them the order one at a time, it would be like a gigantic human piano.

‘oMG, I can’t believe you want to hit trans people with actual hammers’

IleftmybaginNewportPagnell · 05/05/2025 11:07

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Disgusting - I’ve reported this.

RedToothBrush · 05/05/2025 11:07

And as Invisible Women points out so clearly - gender neutral is actually default human (aka male) in terms of who it works for.

BackToLurk · 05/05/2025 11:04

IleftmybaginNewportPagnell · 05/05/2025 10:40

Agree those signs are abhorrent.

..and the fact that not one person appeared to challenge their fellow flower-protecting marchers? Is that abhorrent too?

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