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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Amendment to Data Bill to revert all gender markers and out all trans people

412 replies

bluegoldflow · 02/05/2025 22:07

Hoping this passes, it shouldn't be possible to change your sex (a biological impossibility) on legal documents. This would prevent men using this loop hole to erase their past identities and stop male crimes being recorded as female crimes.

Amendment to Data Bill to revert all gender markers and out all trans people
Amendment to Data Bill to revert all gender markers and out all trans people
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10
Helleofabore · 05/05/2025 12:23

IleftmybaginNewportPagnell · 05/05/2025 11:59

Ok I’ll leave you lot to argue it out amongst yourselves as I’m in tears here due to the comments aimed at me. I came on Mumsnet. I’m just a mum. You know when you support and love your children? Remember that? Well that’s me. Everything we’ve been through, I find it insulting to suggest I wasn’t observing. That is the whole reason I went. I know the person I care for inside out, and those they choose as friends. I wanted to view the wider community. I purposely didn’t march, in case it was too “hardcore”. I went straight to Parliament Square. I am not part of “rent-a-crowd” or on a jolly day out. The flowers comment was an easy target for sarcasm. The police were turned towards the crowds, and there were plenty of independent observers. I’m sorry I didn’t see the sign you refer to, I saw plenty of others whilst searching for the group, a lot had very moving personal messages. I would just implore you all to treat people with kindness and compassion.

Having now been to two events where a group of very aggressive male people with transgender identities screamed, abused and drowned out with instruments women who were merely talking amongst themselves, I think you have a very biased view of those male people who lead those protests. And they had similar signs. And the police did nothing but stand between those intimidating and violent male protestors because apparently that is considered peaceful protest.

Forget all the very scared women, everyone else seems to. Those male people were enabled by the police and by all those who don’t address these groups of male protestors.

I think I know what ‘vitriol’ looks like. And if you are here calling posts on a heavily moderated forum ‘vitriol’, I would suggest you need to start accepting the bias that shapes your own point of view.

I am just a mum too. And I went to the two events to support people I love too. So what? Does that make my experience more or less relevant than yours?

“I wanted to view the wider community.”

It seems like you got a very selective view of that community. And then is the question about how did you miss the media reports afterwards about the group people posted media reports of? Or did you think there was two protests? Or just that women should ignore the violent intimidatory group? If that was the case, I would like to see the well explained reason why we should ignore the group of violent and intimidatory male people with transgender identities who are the very ones telling us they are using our single sex spaces whether we like it or not.

GetDressedYouMerryGentlemen · 05/05/2025 12:22

IleftmybaginNewportPagnell · 05/05/2025 12:15

No - of course I’m aware of them! I’d already addressed that in a previous post, calling them abhorrent. I think my posts have been very clear about my personal connection. Stop judging me. I don’t support or claim to understand each and every trans person but was aiming to give a rounded view. I’m upset because I was VERY observant! My family member is the most kind, gentle person you could wish to know. Do you think I want a cause that affects them to be taken over by violent and abusive people? Of course not.

We can't make laws based on how kind and gentle your family member is. We can't tell which men presenting as women are kind and sweet and which are violent and aggressive so how do make rules that let the nice ones in and keep the bad ones out? If you let the nice, vegan fox who so wants to be a hen he has had his teeth removed and replaced with a beak into the henhouse how do you then turn all the rest of the foxes away?

Annoyedone · 05/05/2025 12:22

So have you gone on to trans groups and told them to be kind and compassionate @IleftmybaginNewportPagnell ? If not, why not? Is it only women’s duty to be kind and compassionate? Why do you believe women and girls are not deserving of single sex spaces?

do you not agree that transmen having their rights to maternity and abortion services enshrined in law, and the confirmation that transpeople are protected under the equality act by the PC of gender reassignment is a good thing? The only people who should’ve upset at the ruling are those who believe that women and girls do not deserve sex based rights and that women is defined by a feeling in a man’s head. Are you saying those are the people you support?

WeMeetInFairIthilien · 05/05/2025 12:22

Igmum · 05/05/2025 09:46

Sex Matters has a template letter on this to send to Peter Kyle. It takes a few seconds to add your details but it MUST be sent today (Monday 5th) so please make this your Bank Holiday terfing https://sex-matters.org/take-action/write-to-peter-kyle/

Done it!
Thank you, wasn't aware of it beforehand.

TheKeatingFive · 05/05/2025 12:19

IleftmybaginNewportPagnell · 05/05/2025 12:15

No - of course I’m aware of them! I’d already addressed that in a previous post, calling them abhorrent. I think my posts have been very clear about my personal connection. Stop judging me. I don’t support or claim to understand each and every trans person but was aiming to give a rounded view. I’m upset because I was VERY observant! My family member is the most kind, gentle person you could wish to know. Do you think I want a cause that affects them to be taken over by violent and abusive people? Of course not.

Well why isn't your ire directed at those violent and abusive people then, rather than women standing up for their rights?

When are you telling them that they need to be more kind and compassionate?

illinivich · 05/05/2025 12:19

FeministUnderTheCatriarchy · 05/05/2025 11:43

It's not beautifully written, it is ChatGPT responding to a prompt.
Put it into any AI detector and it will tell you, but you don't even need to do that. It's blatantly obvious.

This poster couldn't even come and address us on a human level with intelligent thoughts and arguments from their own brain. It's a whole lot of words that basically sum up to a straw man argument of:

"you can't view your words and spaces as important because that makes you a terfy bigot, but we can view those same words and spaces as important because....feelings".

It wasnt even addressing the issues of recording sex accurately in the bill.

The prompt was obviously something along the lines of 'why TW pose no threat to women'. And nothing to do with the subject of the thread.

And given posters then praised the post, it shows how easily any discussions around the sex becomes distracted. Nothing can be discussed or thought about if it upsets trans people and their supporters.

This has to stop.

IleftmybaginNewportPagnell · 05/05/2025 12:18

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/05/2025 12:09

Right back at you. I don’t take kindly to having your mates tell me what rights I should have to privacy and dignity either. Women’s spaces are for women.

My mates - that’s a lot of mates! Think I knew four people there.

DefineHappy · 05/05/2025 12:18

TruthInTransition · 05/05/2025 07:59

I've made my points, and while everyone is entitled to their own opinions and perspectives, this moment marks our stand. I’ve said what I needed to say — consider it food for thought. We’re not going anywhere.

As much as I enjoy these conversations, it's time for me to shift focus and continue living my life. But make no mistake — this is only the beginning. I’ll be back, stronger than ever, to keep fighting for the rights of all trans women.

Until then, I look forward to all your replies, unfortunately I don't have time to respond to everyone but I do appreciate the you all for taking to respond, thank you 😊

Man comes to Feminist space.
Man lectures, threatens, demands, yells, commands.
Women say NO.
Man threatens, threatens, threatens, screenshots, threatens, leaves.

IleftmybaginNewportPagnell · 05/05/2025 12:15

TheKeatingFive · 05/05/2025 12:04

Even if you didn't see the signs at the time, we were all aware of them, so why weren't you?

I think you're only seeing what you want to see here.

And now you're in tears because people have pointed that simple fact out? Really?

I would just implore you all to treat people with kindness and compassion.

I think you need to address yourself first here. What about all the women who have been treated with anything but 'kindness and compassion' by the people you have shown so much support for?

No - of course I’m aware of them! I’d already addressed that in a previous post, calling them abhorrent. I think my posts have been very clear about my personal connection. Stop judging me. I don’t support or claim to understand each and every trans person but was aiming to give a rounded view. I’m upset because I was VERY observant! My family member is the most kind, gentle person you could wish to know. Do you think I want a cause that affects them to be taken over by violent and abusive people? Of course not.

EmpressaurusKitty · 05/05/2025 12:13

This reminds me a bit of the demo outside the Portsmouth FiLiA conference.

Among other things the protesters drowned out the voices of rape survivors by shouting and chalked obscene pictures & phrases on the ground in a busy central area where lots of children were passing.

The organiser claimed to be very upset about this and refused to take any responsibility. It was all the fault of the nasty women for not being inclusive.

Puttinginthemiles · 05/05/2025 12:10

IleftmybaginNewportPagnell · 05/05/2025 11:59

Ok I’ll leave you lot to argue it out amongst yourselves as I’m in tears here due to the comments aimed at me. I came on Mumsnet. I’m just a mum. You know when you support and love your children? Remember that? Well that’s me. Everything we’ve been through, I find it insulting to suggest I wasn’t observing. That is the whole reason I went. I know the person I care for inside out, and those they choose as friends. I wanted to view the wider community. I purposely didn’t march, in case it was too “hardcore”. I went straight to Parliament Square. I am not part of “rent-a-crowd” or on a jolly day out. The flowers comment was an easy target for sarcasm. The police were turned towards the crowds, and there were plenty of independent observers. I’m sorry I didn’t see the sign you refer to, I saw plenty of others whilst searching for the group, a lot had very moving personal messages. I would just implore you all to treat people with kindness and compassion.

Kindness and compassion goes both ways, no? I want single sex spaces for women and girls. That's kind, compassionate and makes us safer. But you don't. Why is the safety and dignity of women and girls always such a blind spot?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/05/2025 12:09

IleftmybaginNewportPagnell · 05/05/2025 11:59

Ok I’ll leave you lot to argue it out amongst yourselves as I’m in tears here due to the comments aimed at me. I came on Mumsnet. I’m just a mum. You know when you support and love your children? Remember that? Well that’s me. Everything we’ve been through, I find it insulting to suggest I wasn’t observing. That is the whole reason I went. I know the person I care for inside out, and those they choose as friends. I wanted to view the wider community. I purposely didn’t march, in case it was too “hardcore”. I went straight to Parliament Square. I am not part of “rent-a-crowd” or on a jolly day out. The flowers comment was an easy target for sarcasm. The police were turned towards the crowds, and there were plenty of independent observers. I’m sorry I didn’t see the sign you refer to, I saw plenty of others whilst searching for the group, a lot had very moving personal messages. I would just implore you all to treat people with kindness and compassion.

Right back at you. I don’t take kindly to having your mates tell me what rights I should have to privacy and dignity either. Women’s spaces are for women.

DefineHappy · 05/05/2025 12:08

TruthInTransition · 05/05/2025 07:34

Your definition of “woman” may be based on a narrow, biological framework—but womanhood, like all human identity, is far more nuanced than anatomy.

You claim the word “woman” refers only to “adult human females,” as if that ends the conversation. But definitions evolve with society. Language is not static—it reflects how we understand people, experiences, and humanity. Once, “marriage” only meant a union between a man and a woman. Once, “voter” excluded women entirely. Should we have stopped evolving then too?

Trans women are not “twisting” words—we are living our truths. Recognizing trans women as women doesn’t erase or override anyone else’s identity. It expands our understanding of womanhood to include the diverse ways it is lived and experienced. That is not an insult—it is progress.

You say it’s “insulting” for trans women to be included in womanhood. But what’s truly insulting is the suggestion that trans women don’t deserve dignity, don’t deserve recognition, don’t deserve safety—because we don’t fit your personal criteria. That’s not about facts. That’s about fear.

The reality is this: trans women exist. We live as women, we are treated as women by society, and we face the same misogyny, threats, and discrimination—often compounded by our trans identity.

What you’re advocating isn’t about preserving language—it’s about exclusion. And exclusion, under the guise of “shared reality,” has always been a tool of oppression. It was used to keep Black people out of schools. To keep women out of voting booths. And now, it’s being used to keep trans women from being seen, heard, and safe.

You don’t get to decide who is or isn’t valid ANYMORE! based on your discomfort. Your beliefs do not override our existence.

Trans women are not erasing anyone. We are not stealing anything. We are demanding to live, fully and authentically, in a world that has tried again and again to deny us that right.

So no—we’re not twisting words. We’re speaking truth. And if that truth threatens your worldview, maybe it’s your worldview that needs to change.

NO.

Helleofabore · 05/05/2025 12:06

TruthInTransition · 05/05/2025 07:13

It's deeply unfair and dangerous to judge an entire community based on the actions of a few individuals. When someone commits a crime, they—and only they—should be held responsible. No one blames all cis women for the crimes of one (Nicola Murray for Child Abuse) to be like-minded, so why is it acceptable to do that to trans women?

Weaponizing the actions of a few people (some of whom may not even be genuinely trans) to smear thousands of innocent trans women who are simply trying to live their lives is nothing short of bigotry. It's the same flawed logic that has fueled racism, sexism, and homophobia for generations.

If you're truly concerned about justice and safety, focus on the individuals committing the crimes—not on tarring an entire group. Blanket assumptions like yours aren’t protecting anyone; they’re just spreading fear and hate.

Trans women are not a threat to cis women. Bigotry, misinformation, and scapegoating are the real threats to a fair and compassionate society.

What’s worse is that anti-trans activists are now pushing for our birth sex to be listed on official documents, which would effectively out trans women in every public setting—at work, at the doctor’s, when travelling, even at a checkout counter. This is a direct violation of our right to privacy and safety. The Equality Act exists to protect us from exactly this kind of discrimination, yet some are working to undermine it under the guise of 'safety'—while actually putting us in harm’s way. Heres a rhetorical question and try to be honest with yourselves

Let me ask a rhetorical question—and I urge you to answer it honestly in your heart:

How many of you have ever truly known, spoken to, or spent time with a trans woman who simply wants to live her life like any other woman? How many of you genuinely understand the emotional, social, and physical toll we endure just to exist peacefully in a world that questions our humanity at every turn?

The word “woman” is not a threat. It is not a battleground. It is a shared identity that reflects a lived experience—and trans women, like all women, navigate life through a lens shaped by society, by gender, and often by adversity. The fear some people express over trans women using the term "woman" reveals not a concern for safety but a deep-rooted discomfort with inclusion and equality. That discomfort is not our burden to carry.

This widespread misunderstanding needs to be addressed clearly: when trans women identify as women, we are not claiming to be cisgender. We are not attempting to erase biological distinctions, nor are we trying to appropriate someone else’s identity. We are simply stating the truth of our own lived realities. We are trans women—and we are proud of that fact.

We are not asking for special treatment. We are demanding basic human decency. The right to live authentically. The right to be recognized accurately. The right not to be misgendered or dismissed because of ignorance or prejudice.

To consistently refer to us as men is not only deeply disrespectful—it is discriminatory. It is a conscious choice to invalidate our identities and erase our humanity. If you refuse to acknowledge us as trans women, you are not just disagreeing—you are actively engaging in dehumanization.

This isn’t a matter of opinion. This is about dignity, safety, and truth. If your advocacy for women’s rights excludes trans women, then it is not truly about equality—it is about gatekeeping. And if your language reduces us to something we are not, then it’s not just wrong. It’s dangerous.

A just society is one that listens, learns, and evolves. It doesn’t cling to outdated fears; it builds a future where everyone—cis, trans, or otherwise—can live with respect, safety, and equality.

“The word “woman” is not a threat. It is not a battleground.”

and

”when trans women identify as women, we are not claiming to be cisgender. We are not attempting to erase biological distinctions, nor are we trying to appropriate someone else’s identity.”

and

“We are not asking for special treatment. We are demanding basic human decency. The right to live authentically. The right to be recognized accurately.”

and

“A just society is one that listens, learns, and evolves. It doesn’t cling to outdated fears; it builds a future where everyone—cis, trans, or otherwise—can live with respect, safety, and equality.”

And we remember things like this below keep on happening:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13660579/amp/hulking-transgender-athletes-take-gold-silver-and-bronze-spots-on-female-podium-at-washington-cycling-championship.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-14577879/amp/Piers-Morgan-leads-outrage-two-transgender-players-contest-final-womens-pool-competition-Sharron-Davies-labels-event-grossly-wrong-way.html

And this is just sport. There are so many examples of the issues that female people face now, it shows words such as the ones in this quoted post to be what they really are.

Male people pleading for female people to accept their demands are to be prioritised above female people’s needs.

A group of male people to have additional privileges above everyone else while dishonestly labelling it ‘equality’.

Transgender athletes win clean sweep at Washington women's cycle meet

Every medalist the elite women's madison at Virginia's Marymoor Grand Prix had a trans athlete on the two-person team, marking the first time trans women are known to have scooped all top places

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13660579/amp/hulking-transgender-athletes-take-gold-silver-and-bronze-spots-on-female-podium-at-washington-cycling-championship.html

TheKeatingFive · 05/05/2025 12:04

IleftmybaginNewportPagnell · 05/05/2025 11:59

Ok I’ll leave you lot to argue it out amongst yourselves as I’m in tears here due to the comments aimed at me. I came on Mumsnet. I’m just a mum. You know when you support and love your children? Remember that? Well that’s me. Everything we’ve been through, I find it insulting to suggest I wasn’t observing. That is the whole reason I went. I know the person I care for inside out, and those they choose as friends. I wanted to view the wider community. I purposely didn’t march, in case it was too “hardcore”. I went straight to Parliament Square. I am not part of “rent-a-crowd” or on a jolly day out. The flowers comment was an easy target for sarcasm. The police were turned towards the crowds, and there were plenty of independent observers. I’m sorry I didn’t see the sign you refer to, I saw plenty of others whilst searching for the group, a lot had very moving personal messages. I would just implore you all to treat people with kindness and compassion.

Even if you didn't see the signs at the time, we were all aware of them, so why weren't you?

I think you're only seeing what you want to see here.

And now you're in tears because people have pointed that simple fact out? Really?

I would just implore you all to treat people with kindness and compassion.

I think you need to address yourself first here. What about all the women who have been treated with anything but 'kindness and compassion' by the people you have shown so much support for?

Annoyedone · 05/05/2025 12:03

IleftmybaginNewportPagnell · 05/05/2025 11:59

Ok I’ll leave you lot to argue it out amongst yourselves as I’m in tears here due to the comments aimed at me. I came on Mumsnet. I’m just a mum. You know when you support and love your children? Remember that? Well that’s me. Everything we’ve been through, I find it insulting to suggest I wasn’t observing. That is the whole reason I went. I know the person I care for inside out, and those they choose as friends. I wanted to view the wider community. I purposely didn’t march, in case it was too “hardcore”. I went straight to Parliament Square. I am not part of “rent-a-crowd” or on a jolly day out. The flowers comment was an easy target for sarcasm. The police were turned towards the crowds, and there were plenty of independent observers. I’m sorry I didn’t see the sign you refer to, I saw plenty of others whilst searching for the group, a lot had very moving personal messages. I would just implore you all to treat people with kindness and compassion.

so you’re telling women on here to be kind and compassionate. Why? Would you tell annabused woman to be nice to her abuser? Women have been threatened, punched, raped, doxxed and berated for standing up for their sex based rights but you want us just to budge up and be nice to placate some very upset men? No is a complete sentence.

DrudgeJedd · 05/05/2025 12:01

CleaningSilverCandlesticks · 05/05/2025 07:51

Oh look, another man has appeared and is trying to erase women. What a surprise.

"Oh look, another man LLM has appeared and is trying to erase women. What a surprise."
I'm pretty sure there's some kind of AI misogyny training happening with some of these posts on MN

IleftmybaginNewportPagnell · 05/05/2025 11:59

Ok I’ll leave you lot to argue it out amongst yourselves as I’m in tears here due to the comments aimed at me. I came on Mumsnet. I’m just a mum. You know when you support and love your children? Remember that? Well that’s me. Everything we’ve been through, I find it insulting to suggest I wasn’t observing. That is the whole reason I went. I know the person I care for inside out, and those they choose as friends. I wanted to view the wider community. I purposely didn’t march, in case it was too “hardcore”. I went straight to Parliament Square. I am not part of “rent-a-crowd” or on a jolly day out. The flowers comment was an easy target for sarcasm. The police were turned towards the crowds, and there were plenty of independent observers. I’m sorry I didn’t see the sign you refer to, I saw plenty of others whilst searching for the group, a lot had very moving personal messages. I would just implore you all to treat people with kindness and compassion.

Datun · 05/05/2025 11:54

IleftmybaginNewportPagnell · 05/05/2025 11:14

Well yes - I was going to add to my post that I would’ve felt unhappy if I’d seen that sign and challenged them, but didn’t want to derail this thread. The police did a good job I thought. FWIW I HATE the term cis. The people I care about know I’ll have their backs, I read these threads occasionally to see the challenges they’re up against. Probably shouldn’t, it’s upsetting. I’m not radical just an issue very close to me.

As a pp has said it was well documented. And as for the police being good, they utterly denied it even happened.

Even when faced with photographic evidence they said it was somewhere else, ages ago.

TRAs:

  • held a banner declaring ‘The only good TERF is a dead one’;
  • beandished placards calling for the ‘witch’ JK (Rowling) to be ‘burned;
  • engaged in public urination (#PeeForMe)—because transwomen (i.e. men) get to ‘pee where we want,’ primarily in women’s toilets;
  • defaced statues, including that of Nelson Mandela; suffragette Millicent Fawcett was daubed with ‘Fag Rights.’
  • heard incitement from speakers including Sarah Jane (previously Alan) Baker, a violent ex-convictwho gained further notoriety in 2023 when he called for TERFs (‘trans-exclusionary radical feminists’) to be punched in the face.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/04/24/police-misled-minister-about-violent-threats-trans-protest/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR4vBSt25_Q7esU-Z3ugYuvl3kTaKsVC8CMBym2Q1MjCSZip-W1UYZraGfQkHA_aem_-UnTmCNWjElstG3nQKs-xg

https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news-corner/london-holy-saturday-trans-demo-vandalism-no-comment-from-starmer/

Harry Potter and Rowling Under Scrutiny Again

Once lauded as the exemplar of children's literature and cinema, the Harry Potter series is now the subject of repeated condemnations that tarnish its ...

https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/harry-potter-and-rowling-under-scrutiny-again/

Puttinginthemiles · 05/05/2025 11:54

WaffleParty · 05/05/2025 11:26

Beautifully written and well-considered.
Unfortunately it will not be well received on Mumsnet, but be assured there are plenty of cis women in the real world who understand that trans women pose no threat and deserve support and understanding.
Brave to post on here!

You're wrong.

There are many trans identifying males who have committed crimes against women and girls. The issue is men. It always is

TheKeatingFive · 05/05/2025 11:52

WaffleParty · 05/05/2025 11:26

Beautifully written and well-considered.
Unfortunately it will not be well received on Mumsnet, but be assured there are plenty of cis women in the real world who understand that trans women pose no threat and deserve support and understanding.
Brave to post on here!

Transwomen, being men, pose at least the same amount of threat to women as other men, therefore should be treated as such - not welcomed into women's single sex spaces.

Why is that so hard to understand?

GetDressedYouMerryGentlemen · 05/05/2025 11:50

RedToothBrush · 05/05/2025 09:35

The problem is it's not just about criminal trans people.

We shouldn't frame it like this.

Sex is relevant to data in multiple ways - including ways that protect trans people. This is particularly important in healthcare.

Legal documents may refer to anything relating to a contract or to an officially held piece of government information.

That's anything from your own health records, to an employment contract, to a contract where you participate in a medical study, to criminal files, to data collection in other areas.

Failure to declare sex in any of these areas could have a detrimental effect on others in someway and harm others so there's a lot here to unpack.

It's not all about rapists or an intent to harm. Harm could be unintended or self inflicted if there isn't accurate disclosure of sex that's the problem.

Imagine someone claims they are male but then is accidentally over dosed. There's the impact on staff involved in that case. Imagine you falsify medical records for research and the massive implications for women's health as a result from distorting the records just a little. Image you pretend you are female so you aren't 'outted' at work but end up embroiled in a legal case over the toilets or treating women without their consent and how this drags your employer in (especially with regards to public sector employees). This about how the census data is important and how facilities are planned years in advance on the basis of data and how inaccuracies can cause problems further down the line if the data is inaccurate. This could include a lack of appropriate third party facilities because of the invisibility of trans people from data!

Genuinely even with a ruling about protecting the privacy of an individual there's a problem here which overrides that individual privacy concern. Even GDPR despite being very tight and overarching has clauses which allow for public interest and safeguarding.

And this is where I do think that you'd be able to make a case on those grounds even with previous legal cases because of the massive implications of not observing sex.

I personally think it will stick get nowhere despite this compelling argument precisely because it's being proposed by a Tory not Labour, but I don't think that takes away from the merit of the bill. We really do need to seriously consider the implications of falsified information - and who this harms.

Without a record of sex that actually correlates to the sexed body of an individual the information becomes pointless.

E.g. 53 women have died of prostate cancer
9 men have cervical cancer
11 women had to have a testicle removed due to testicular cancer
Rate of ovarian cancer in men rises sharply.

So are we to bring in prostate screening for women?
Should all people regardless of their sex regularly check their testicles?

It's nonsense.

Did it matter that the person in a skirt, blouse, push up bra and lipstick who served me in a cafe the other day was clearly male? No. If that same person was arrested for a crime or was lining up against me in a women's 100m race it would matter because otherwise the statistics are slewed. Where sex matters it matters a lot and should never be falsified.

As for being outted by sex markers this where being kind has got us. People know you are male, they might be too polite or too scared or too enthralled by the ideology to mention it but they know. We subconsciously register your gait and your hands and the shape of your shoulders and 100s of other small differences that make male bodies different to female bodies and no amount of hormones, no quantity of surgery, no careful application of lipstick or choice of oh so feminine dress will alter that.

IHeartHalloumi · 05/05/2025 11:48

CleaningSilverCandlesticks · 05/05/2025 08:38

You are attributing the actions of a few individuals, real or alleged, to an entire marginalized community.

The only community that is marginalised here are women. Trans have been centred by everyone for years. As far as attributing the actions of a few - the action is that of stealing women’s language and destroying women’s spaces which is embedded in your whole ideology and which you are doing now.

I agree with you but I also think transidentifying women and particularly girls are very vulnerable and marginalised, particularly with many having a history of sexual abuse and other adverse experiences or neurodiversity. Ties in with them being actually women and therefore ignored by the powers that be.

Transidentifying males are (broadly speaking) not marginalised- if anything they are over represented by the media & in politics. That's a clue to them actually being male of course.

IleftmybaginNewportPagnell · 05/05/2025 11:45

WaffleParty · 05/05/2025 11:26

Beautifully written and well-considered.
Unfortunately it will not be well received on Mumsnet, but be assured there are plenty of cis women in the real world who understand that trans women pose no threat and deserve support and understanding.
Brave to post on here!

I agree with you, seems I’m getting a hard time here!

FeministUnderTheCatriarchy · 05/05/2025 11:43

WaffleParty · 05/05/2025 11:26

Beautifully written and well-considered.
Unfortunately it will not be well received on Mumsnet, but be assured there are plenty of cis women in the real world who understand that trans women pose no threat and deserve support and understanding.
Brave to post on here!

It's not beautifully written, it is ChatGPT responding to a prompt.
Put it into any AI detector and it will tell you, but you don't even need to do that. It's blatantly obvious.

This poster couldn't even come and address us on a human level with intelligent thoughts and arguments from their own brain. It's a whole lot of words that basically sum up to a straw man argument of:

"you can't view your words and spaces as important because that makes you a terfy bigot, but we can view those same words and spaces as important because....feelings".

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