Banned from breastfeeding group for objecting to males breastfeeding

And in my reply I qualified since you were so keen to interrogate edge cases in the use of language.

However, even for an adoptive or step mother, the child in question still has a mother who gestated and bore them that is not their adoptive or step mother.

Thats why those qualifiers exist! I am not saying a step or adoptive mother has no right to call themselves a mother. The mother of a friend of mine when I was growing was murdered. His dad remarried and his step-mum always loved him and cared for him and gave him 3 sisters besides! But his mum was always his mum who had been murdered when he was a child. It’s not that he didn’t love his step mum, nor did he even object to her calling herself his mum- she said at his 21st birthday what at honour it had been. But it wasn’t the same.

it is an attempt to recreate through the sexual dyad of the husband-wife relationship the similar structural relationship with the child. But that these women have not gestated or bore these children means they are not “mothers” in the simple, ordinary and straightforward meaning of the word. They are step mothers, or adoptive mothers. As fierce in their love, generosity and sacrifice. But no, not exactly the same.

Wouldn't the milk contain the drugs though? It pisses me off that transgender people are medicated up to the eyeballs but are allowed to do nonsense like this whereas actual women avoid medication, alcohol, etc in order to give their children the best start in life. Same with trans identified women taking testosterone then getting pregnant.

A mother gestates and bears a child.

On the contrary, yes you did say just that

I didn’t say I find someone being trans disgusting - that’s a complete fabrication on your part.

It’s not for others to dictate what resources SS should allocate where by not reporting genuine concerns - if OP doesn’t have any genuine concerns, then she obviously wouldn’t report it anyway.

SS have a system to decide which reports to follow up on, but applying a blanket attitude of “don’t burden the system” to reporting genuinely held concerns is how situations arise where it transpires there were all these unfortunate missed opportunities.

If this is real, it is a revolting abuse of women by someone who clearly gets a kick out of disregarding the boundaries and needs of vulnerable people, including their own wife and child. I seriously hope OP is on a wind up. If not, I would advise a strong complaint outlining just how uncomfortable it makes you feel and just how abusive any trans woman would need to be to do this. Apart from anything else there is literally no ‘support’ lactating females can offer male people who want to simulate breastfeeding - that desire needs to be filled by medical professionals. It is nothing to do with the process that postpartum women are going through.

So they’re aware of what? Are we honestly diverting services away from babies and children genuinely in need because you find someone being trans disgusting? Mumsnet lets itself down by letting these comments stand. If you’d said this about any other minority group you’d be facing a ban.

This man isn’t a mother though, so why are you derailing the thread. He is the father. Not an adoptive or step father. The biological father. Not the mother. He will never be the mother. He is the legal father.

The person trying to breastfeed their child that OP objects to is properly referred to as she.

And yes, it has been shown that with the appropriate intervention trans women can lactate.

The mother you objecting to has every right to be their - unless the relevant service makes this a single sex space and feels it can evidence a proportionate reason for making it such.

OP please focus on your own child at this critical time and stop worrying about how other mothers parent theirs.

I’ve not said otherwise.

Also, depending on what your council’s stance is on gender woo, it might be worth considering contacting social services about the other baby, just so they’re aware.

But that’s a bit of a prickly one, as they might take the transwomen’s side and turn the tables on you for being a bigot, so I’d definitely proceed with caution there.

Honestly, it does feel like the world has gone utterly, utterly mad when there’s more chance that the national press will understand about child safeguarding than the social workers whose job it is to actually protect children.

Adoptive mothers ( at least in the UK ) and step mothers ( in most cultures ) don’t breast feed their children. Because they are not the biological mother .

You can be a legal and social mother ( like an adoptive mother ) but not a biological mother.

You can be a biological mother ( like a birth mother or a surrogate mother ) but not be a legal mother.

You can be a social mother ( like some step mothers ) without being either the legal mother or the biological mother.

You are confusing the biological , social and legal aspects of being a mother.

Don’t be ridiculous an adoptive woman has every right to call herself a mother

A mother gestates and bears a child

So are you saying an adoptive woman cannot call herself a mother or a step mother cannot call herself a mother, there are different versions of mothers aside from the one you mentioned

Stop being ridiculous?!?!

In the ordinary course of events, yes, an adoptive mother is precisely that, adoptive. A step mother is that, a step mother.

Stop playing silly buggers with words. Where an adoptive mother or step mother has stepped into the breach for a child in need, it is not exactly the same as a mother in the sense of one who gestates and bears young.

I am not saying they are any less heroic in their sacrifice- but no it isn’t the same. Our ordinary use of the term mother in the context of adoptive or step is as the parent who rears the child fulfilling the female role. This is highly gendered and cultured, and varies in how it looks across history and geography, but to be clear:

no, an adoptive mother or a step mother is not a mother in the precise same sense in which we ordinarily use the term mother!

Why else would these forums be full of step mothers or adoptive mothers discussing difficulties peculiar to their situation if it was the same? There is a difference, they are mothers, but no not in the same sense.

To compare this to a male who has inseminated a woman and tried to co-opt the role of mother is ludicrous and defies any kind of ordinary or even technical definition of “mother” that makes sense.

A mother gestates and bears a child

So are you saying an adoptive woman cannot call herself a mother or a step mother cannot call herself a mother, there are different versions of mothers aside from the one you mentioned

Stop being ridiculous?!?!

@Blueskies25
It’s rude to send laughing imojis at posts if all you mean is to belittle others posts.
Mumsnet are checking up on the inappropriate use of these

but now we know

I think your interpretation is incorrect

I can call myself King Charles IV but it doesn’t make it true. If words mean something, if there is intelligibility behind what we say, then no, this bloke at the breast feeding support group is NOT a mother. A mother gestates and bears a child. In addition, in the ordinary course of events she is equipped to feed the child with her mammaries (that is, she is a mammal!). A father inseminates the mother. That’s how sexual dimorphism works.

Agree @LonginesPrime

Here’s a loud more legal definitions

No it doesn’t, the biological mother is still the biological mother but their partner if it was a trans woman can also be a mother .

A trans man could call themselves a mother or a father if they had a child, whatever they choose