Banned from breastfeeding group for objecting to males breastfeeding

Language is such a huge part of what keeps people confused about these issues. Consider the following sentences:

Some male people fetishise infants suckling from their breasts.

Some trans women fetishise infants suckling from their breasts.

The second sentence confuses people into thinking that this group of people are a type of woman, such as ‘tall women’ are. Therefore the message is less clear and informative than the one using precise and accurate language.

'a lot more discussions need to be had before issues like this are sorted out and things are set in place where everyone is happy and comfortable'

If you think that society needs to have 'a lot more discussions' about male people inducing a secretion to feed to an infant when even before the discussion takes another step, society would need to know that this is some male people's paraphilia. That some male people fetishise breastfeeding and infants sucking at their nipples. Then I don't think you see the significant safeguarding risks around this very issue.

Society does not need to have 'a lot more discussions' about opening up the potential for male people to be abusing infants in this way. We need to be acknowledging that this is putting infants at risk here.

I don't think blueskies is a real person.

Repetitive exclamations, non-sequiturs, and not understanding what's going on.

not real

It is a great benefit to keep the thread in the active list.

It's the gift that keeps on giving on this thread so yes that would certainly make sense!

No male person can ever experience life as any type of woman. They can only ever experience life as a male person who believes they are a woman. The use of the adjective 'trans' in the term 'trans woman' is a false usage, why should any person have to comply with such a request to use such a term.

Even when they 'act' like a woman, those male people are acting as they believe a 'woman' should act. Which is fucking misogynistic!

Even if they are treated 'as a woman' by some people, they are being treated as a 'male who presents as a woman and believes they are a woman'. Because their every reaction is based on that. Not on them being female in any way.

Even when they have extreme body modifications, it is to be their own concept of what a female looks like to them. It is not what a female is.

How can it be?

The only way a person can experience life as a woman, is to have a female body, formed around the production of large gametes, even if it doesn't produce those and to navigate their life based on the decisions they and society makes that revolve around them having that body.

A male can conceptualise what it might be like to be a female, but that is all it ever is - their concept of being female.

They may do it because they don't feel they fit into how they conceptualise how a male person interacts with the world (ie. their own stereotypes around being male) or they do it because they want to be seen as a female (using their own stereotypes of how a female navigates life). It really doesn't matter though. Their motivation is irrelevant to the outcome. And I consider the outcome can only be described as misogyny.

Which is that they will always be just a male who believes they are something they are objectively not.

How can the material reality be any different? This is why someone's gender is only based on someone's philosophical belief. And philosophical beliefs are fine for people to hold, but not one person in the UK has to comply with another's philosophical belief.

The logic cannot be any different than that I am afraid. Yet we are told that unless we use the language demanded by these male people, we are lacking intelligence and indeed, education. And we are to be shamed for our disrespect.

Please stop

The irony in your comments is killing me. 🤣🤣

Wise words. Sorry for falling down the rabbit hole.

Why does a male person who has a particular belief about who they are that does not reflect material reality deserve greater respect regarding language choices than someone else’s language choices?

How exactly is it contributing to the problem?

The world is finally starting to wake up to the madness that is men in women's prisons, men in women's sports, medical experimentation and chemical castration of children, women and girls being abused in spaces that were meant to be female, men involving babies in breastfeeding fetish role play...the list goes on and on and on...

That any of this was allowed to happen is the problem, not women correctly pointing out that men are men.

The genie is not going back in the bottle.

A third of Britons don’t know that transgender women were born male

It says a lot about the standard of education in Britain

Please explain where my comments are incorrect and lacking education?

https://archive.is/QlEna

A third of Britons don’t know that transgender women were born male

Here is the source of the data

https://murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/2023/08/07/clarity-matters-how-placating-lobbyists-obscures-public-understanding-of-sex-and-gender/

People with attitudes like yours are just contributing to the overall problem, blatant ignorance, whilst showing a complete lack of respect or understanding but at the same time demanding respect

It’s a clear indication of a lack of intelligence / education

Trans women can't breast feed though, because they are men.

I'll go dig out my tinest violin for all the men who don't feel respected enough in their attempts to feed newborn infants drug induced nipple secretions.

Male people who have a philosophical belief that they are female are not any type of woman. No matter how sincerely they believe they are a type of woman as indicated by the using ‘trans’ as an adjective.

What changes within a male person from before they make a declaration that they are women to after? They are still male are they not?

And the word for adult male people is ‘men’. That is the precise and accurate word for that group of humans. Just because they believe that they are not men doesn’t mean that they are not. And others do not have to act in a way that supports that belief.

Too many people have been conned into thinking that trans women are biological women who identify as trans, when the opposite is the case.

I don’t know anyone who thinks this, where are you getting this nonsense from?

And they never will respect us if this kind of attitude continues.

Two wrongs don’t make a right

Calling men men makes it clear why we don't want them in women's only spaces. Perhaps you would prefer trans identifying males? As at least that is clear. Too many people have been conned into thinking that trans women are biological women who identify as trans, when the opposite is the case.

Getting what, exactly?

Indeed

They are men and it does help because it stops the language obfuscation that has encouraged and allowed some horrendous treatment of women and children.

I don't care if they feel disrespected, collectively they have never shown women and children any respect.

Getting what, exactly?

And using the laugh reaction as derision is something MN wishes to be reported to them. I haven’t. But others might if you do it to them.

FYI, I think it’s completely disrespect full to refer to trans women as men, they are trans women,
This kind of attitude is a big part of the problem and not helping anything.
We are women, they are trans women

If we want to be respected we need to respect others

Exactly makes me so mad. I had serious problems breastfeeding to the point my baby dehydrated. Could I get any medication to help? No.