Thank You from a Trans Lurker

I didn't swear at you. I pointed out that you're trolling and goading, and it's more than obvious now after it being explained so many times to you by so many other people in so many different ways that you were never genuine, you didn't post in good faith. You never were genuine. At least you've made that clear now.

I asked that too, no response was forthcoming.

Sorry? You were sworn at, or she used swear words?

As I said I got sworn at, and Flaky Critic must have made some questionable comments although I didn't see them

@FlakyCritic has sworn at me and managed to have several comments deleted, so don't blame me, I'm just stating my point of view.

One of the good things about this site though is that there isn't a block button - do you want it to become even more of an echo chamber, only seeing posts you agree with?
I actually like reading a range of opinions and views - some posts make you think, some posts challenge your own views, which is a good thing imo, either you want "free speech" or you don't.

But you're not questioning. You were, but now you're scolding.

Why, because you can't cope with anyone having a different point of view or questioning anything?

A really good thread went downhill fast.
Mumsnet needs a block button.

How about you don't make assumptions about other people's views? We are right here.

OP doesn't seem lost or in need of saving.

It's also about the OP being polite and reasonable.

I'll respond accordingly. Whatever anyone's sex or gender.

Although males on a.feminist board on a website primarily for women should be aware of the fact and respectful of that.

Just quoting my own post.

What is also ignored is the male people who start threads or contribute on this board about them accessing female single sex provisions is them transgressing into a feminist space. It is still a feminist board.

I think there are an issue with some posters not being able to recognise that just the act of ignoring female people's boundaries and any space where female people are centred is a significant issue. And that crossing boundaries is part of the attraction for some, if not many, male people with transgender identities. It may not be them doing it out of hate or intend to harm, but they certainly get a positive emotional response within themselves at accessing a space that it centring female people.

This is a feminism board. By its very nature it is attractive to a male person who wishes to cross that boundary. However, it is a space for female people to discuss feminism and female people's needs.

It does seem a shame that a couple of posters are trying to derail an interesting and respectful discussion to make it about them, rather than enjoy the spirit of the conversation and contribute positively.

Isn't it transphobic to expect a female person with a transgender identity to react in the way that some people expect a male person with a transgender identity to react?

And fucking sexist to boot?

It becomes apparent after a while that some people are operating under their own entrenched prejudices that FWR is transphobic.

They forget that there is a huge portion of female people who have transgender identities and that we often have discussions with them and we include them in feminism. Because they are FEMALE. Their needs are highly aligned with our needs because they are FEMALE.

And most of the posters who come here, including some who are regular posters, support the feminist campaigns around this issue because they fully understand the needs as a female person. They are not demanding access to provisions that are not rightfully theirs.

And they tend to have similar experiences to relate. There is one who occasionally popped in a year ago who told us of the apps they use and the efforts that they go to so that they, who had made significant effort to present as a male person, and others that they knew would not cause any female person distress entering a female single sex toilet. But that they are careful when and where they use any male single sex toilet too.

They don't demand to be referred to as he/him, they carefully explain their needs and in doing so we gain the knowledge of those needs and what they are also doing for themselves quietly without any public attention.

But if FWR was truly 'transphobic', those female people would not be listened to as they are.

There is also the issue of negative feedback farming where a poster will enter a thread and use negative generalisations, name call and not engage beyond censuring posters, then they claim to be attacked. It is a self fulfilling engagement cycle.

I get the feeling that I must have missed whole chunks of OP's posts because I seem to have missed OP acting as if she has redefined feminism to suit her, and missed OP demanding things of us that OP is not already entitled to as a female person with a transgender identity.

I also must have missed her insisting that men treat her as if she was male.

There really seems to be disconnect between what Seethlaw has posted and what some posters are reading, but I am happy to be corrected if she has indeed done this on this or any other thread.

Because the OP is a female posting on a feminist board, who is not demanding or using emotionally manipulative tactics of other female people such as making language or any other accommodations for them. The OP is not demanding access to female single sex provisions that the OP isn't entitled to.

It is actually really not that hard to understand. There are a few female people on this board with transgender identities who post regularly (I believe that Seethlaw is the third regular that I know of) but who also have never tried to demand or emotionally manipulate other female people to support their beliefs by acting as if they are male, using language accommodations for them etc. They post about their perspective on feminism and on whether gender or sex should be prioritised.

Why should feminist have to accommodate male people who post on a feminist board that they should be included in single sex provisions designated for female people and to progress female people out of a millennia of negative sexist discrimination and oppression?

FWIW one of the funniest and most human posts I've ever read on this board was by a trans woman years ago. I often wonder what happened to them and how the evolving landscape has treated them.

Who are " you people"? That's a bit of a generalisation isn't it? There are hundreds of people here - from all walks of life and all types of background. What they all have in common is that they want to retain the protections and rights afforded to the female sex.

You''ll get back what you put in. So best make a proper effort.

What is infuriating is that you cannot seem to discriminate between one type of circumstance and another. You seem to be operating under the assumption that what you would find would be 'transphobia' ....maybe because you are seeing everything in a black and white way. That disagreement about gender ideology and what it is and how it operates must mean automatic hatred of 'trans people'.

This is not about individuals, though ( unless those individuals are disrespectful and knowingly violate female boundaries). If someone posts in a respectful and considered way then they will receive respectful and considered responses. That doesn't necessarily have to mean agreement with solutions, though.

The most important consideration is that people need to respect female boundaries and female dignity. You can identify however you like, but it doesn't change the facts of your sex.

I think Reddit might suit this poster better.

Um - because the OP is not claiming to be a man in the same way as trans women are claiming to be women? She is not claiming her need to identify as a man has to redefine everyone else as well. On the conrtary she describes it as a personal feeling, that she has no idea if it's actually what men experience at all, she doesn't feel she has the authority to speak for men "as a man". She understands the reality that she is a women who feels happier defining herself as a man whether or not anyone accepts her as such.

I mean, have you even read her posts?