Thank You from a Trans Lurker

I really appreciate it that you clearly have alot of empathy for trans people and I imagine that when you see posts about us on here that are distressing it's likely similiar to how I feel when I see that TRAs have said things like 'hang terfs' and have threatened women with rape and stuff like that. And for sure, I've read things on here that I've also found distressing, I can't help that I feel as if I'd be lumped in with the likes of Isla Bryson just for being a TW, despite being a SA survivor and that I'd have no intention of hurting anyone. But I also understand that many GC women have been through alot because of TRAs and are extremely protective of their space to say what they have to say. Maybe some here just hate us because they're hateful, but most GCs are not.

I really don't know what the solution is anymore. Unlike most trans people in the UK, I accepted and supported the ruling because I just wanted the 'debate' to stop, the majority of people (women, children and trans people) who could be and have been affected by everything that has been happening are not activists, likely aren't even proactively engaging in the discourse at all and are just trying to live their life. We need a reset.

The sad fact is, I think it's just getting worse and I don't know the answer. I think there is more understanding to be found, I think TRAs need to quiet down and listen and realise the damage they've done not just to the rights of women, but to us also: the people they apparently want to protect.

I hope that you don't feel like you've been piled on here, I do really appreciate that you clearly care about us much like I do care about the women in my life and I wouldn't want them to feel unsafe because of the actions of destructive TRAs if they were potentially to voice concerns they have.

@Seethlaw just wanted to say thanks for starting this thread and for being so open to answering questions. I haven't contributed but I have read it all and it's been really interesting - please stick around on FWR if you can. Wishing you continued health and happiness in your life.

Anyway I'm leaving this forum now, so hugely disappointing the way everyone has jumped on the lets hate trans folk bandwagon.

You're dismissing the views of many many reasonable GC posters who have never once called trans people names or mocked anything other than dishonesty. I can't tell if you really think some posts on another thread reflect everyone, or you haven't fully understood the history of the discussion that's been going on in here for a decade, or you are for some reason desperate to tell trans people they are unilaterally hated but it's not the case.

It's incredibly frustrating to be told you think something you simply don't. It's not compatible with promoting good mental health. I'm tired of it.

But I think this thread showed that if everyone approaches discussion with respectful attitudes, a good conversation can be had.

Unfortunately on other threads the drive by attacks get people's backs up which is not constructive.

Personally I've found this thread very interesting with much to think about.

And by the way I'm not putting down mental illness, I suffer depression myself, it's the demeaning way the posters are saying trans is a mental illness. I can assure you it's not said in any supportive or helpful way, it's said in a nasty mocking way.
Anyway I'm leaving this forum now, so hugely disappointing the way everyone has jumped on the lets hate trans folk bandwagon.

It's the straight off the bat bigotry I can't stand. I advise you go and read some of those threads, the school one in particular. It's really vile and there are plenty more threads where the same views are aired which gives everyone else the push to pile on too. It's sickening. It's like oh they're trans so they're perverts, seeking access to children, going to push their views onto students. I cannot believe that good schools are going to hire such people. It's getting to the point where everyone on here has an objection to a trans person doing all sorts of jobs, activities etc. Soon they'll be asked to stay behind closed doors. But yes just pick any thread and you'll see the outright bigotry and mocking and disdain posters have got trans folk. I think you would find it uncomfortable and upsetting reading.I wanted to learn more about it all but I won't be engaging in this forum anymore because the transphobia is rampant and I don't want to have all the shit in my brain. I will my thoughts and energy into trying to make things better for trans people instead.
I wish you both the best in life I really do. And I'm sorry there is such disgusting stuff written on here.

they had to refer themselves to Police Scotland.

At the moment Scotland is the gift that keeps on giving!

Not saying that other parts of the UK aren't also doing batshittery, and maybe FWR has a larger % of Scots posters, but there seems to be a bottomless pool of illustraions of right thinking gone wrong.

Or is it that those based in Scotland and posting on FWR are more thorough in their monitering of the impact of the TRA kamikaze campaign method.

Thank you Arabella. I always really appreciate your posts: informative, heartfelt, clear 💐 I’ve learned a great deal from you here.

Here:

https://ncth.nhs.uk/other-gp-guidance/

NHS England still link to WPATH's Standards of Care, by the way.

The one with the eunuchs.

We can talk about the DSM.

We then should also talk about WPATH, who were instrumental in reclassifying gender dysphoria.

You know what else WPATH promote?

Eunuchs. Affirming eunuch gender.

When NHS Scotland added WPATH's latest Standards of Care to their website, and realised they contained a link to 'the eunuch archive', a site that includes fantasies of CSA, they had to refer themselves to Police Scotland.

Because NHS Scotland had hosted a link to CSA material.

We are only seeing the tip of the iceberg. And it is fucking murky.

Couldn’t agree with you more

In some ways PhoebesPony, it's sad that you seem to see mental illness as a slur. Gender dysphoria must surely be a mental illness. Just as anorexia is. Or anything else where the reality of your physical body doesn't match your thoughts. That's not something to be ashamed of. But it is something that might concern parents of children being taught by the person concerned. Because a parent's primary duty is to their child and having a child and trying to keep them safe and happy is the most important thing in the world. So even if there is no cause for concern in reality, a parent (well, a good loving one) is always going to end up worrying.

It's also irrelevant how 'nicely' women ask frankly. We've been called all the names and had all the death threats, for several years now. After that, people chiding us for manners is just risible.

I'm here for child safeguarding and protecting women's rights, I'm not here to make nice. It doesn't bloody matter.

Teenage girls are having their healthy breasts removed, ffs. Women are being raped. And we're to be polite about it? Fuck that.

Its almost impossible to find the nuance when safeguarding relies on being clear about sex, and an influencial group of people are trying their best to hide theirs.

I understand what you mean Phoebe, and I see you've been trying to protect trans people in this thread. I don't think it has to be black and white though, I personally think it's all very nuanced. I do think GC people cross the line sometimes, just as trans people cross the line sometimes. I do find some posts I read on mumsnet distressing, but so too do I sometimes find posts I read on trans sites distressing. Some people crossing the line doesn't automatically mean that others on the same "side" are making incorrect points.

Members of my own family were very strongly GC prior to learning of my gender dysphoria. They said some downright nasty things behind closed doors, I know what happens. But they also made some sensible points. Both can coexist.

I really just hope in the long run the heat can be taken out of the debates and that a reasonable rational debate can ensue. I don't like viewing anyone as an enemy. Trans and GC people share this country and I really hope we can make it work for everyone. There will always be people who think we're too far one way or the other. That's life though.

I'd like a world in which women have a reasonable sensible set of protections, they make up half the population for goodness sake! I'd also like trans people to have space in society to quietly get on with their life post transition if they so choose. Transition itself is inherently a trade off, it comes at a cost: socially, medically, legally, financially. It brings big benefits for some, I'll attest to that, but I knew there would be significant downsides. I just hope we can keep it balanced.

Absolutely, I am trying to be as rational and informed about it as I can be. I have spoken to people in real life who have had severe complications, and have watched plenty of YouTube content by regretters. I take it seriously and listen to what they say. Obviously the analytical rational part of my brain knows it's an insane risk to take, but it just doesn't change how I feel. As I mentioned, the feelings have been with me my whole life, since young childhood. I'm just crossing my fingers it goes well. Even many of the 'bad' outcomes I've heard feel like an acceptable improvement to the status quo. It is what it is.

(as an aside can I just say I love your username! Every time I've seen it I always thought it was so witty 😆)

@Seethlaw - I could just hug you. Thank you for being so completely reasonable. It must drive you barmy as a transman seeing the ridiculous demands from some of the lunatic TRA made in the name of 'your community'.

And yes, @PhoebesPony ! Trans people in the U.K. have far more rights and are far more protected under the law than in so, so many other countries. Which is a good thing - having legal recourse when facing descrimination is great.

In fact, they have more protection than women, because hate crime legislation doesn't include misogyny but does include transphobia. People are absolutely vile about women and the police don't do a thing. Someone 'misgenders' a TRA on Twitter and the police get called.

There were a several serial abusers of the law in that particular tactic to silence GC women that spring to mind. There was even the lunatic from Mermaids (I think) who tried to prosecute transwoman Miranda Yardley for transphobia.

I don't know how schools square safeguarding policies, and telling children their female teacher is a man/vice versa, or has no sex.

I was beginning to see some of the GC's points of view on a lot of things but now I just feel disgusted that people are egging each other on like this against a group of people.

OP it sounds like where you are living you're not coming up against many problems at all and that it's all been relatively easy for you so you can afford to be nice and reasonable etc because you're not really having to struggle with other people's view of you. Things feel different here for trans people. I'm really glad you can live your life in peace, it would be nice if others could too.