Pulled up at work for ‘trans views’

I completely agree with your views, the term ‘Cis women’ is no longer relevant as there is only one type of woman, the others are trans women

Why should biological women now need to use the term ‘Cis’ to define themselves, there are women and trans women, that’s it

I would challenge management on this by e-mail, if they want to be inclusive then they need to recognise and take into account the views of women as well as trans women

And if you don't believe that people can be a different sex than how they were born, there is no such thing as "cis". If the trans population want to put themselves into some category, I don't gas. I do NOT choose to be put into a category and just because the trans community want to put me there, they cannot. MY choice, not theirs.

I'd suggest sharing this information with both Sex Matters and the EHRC OP. I suspect they'd be very interested, and they'd be best placed to guide you on how to reply, because you have legal rights.

I hate this kind of labelling and bullying. It's bloody 'identity politics', isn't it? It just loves to divide people.

Just because you questioned a label given to you by someone else, OP, you are then assumed to hold certain views (all a big stretch and total assumption) which you yourself have never expressed.

This is why I supported the National Trust volunteers who refused to wear rainbow lanyards. I would too. It's come to something when refusal to wear a badge/lable/slogan is assumed to imply that you oppose that particular cause or viewpoint. I'm not homophobic in the slightest - and I'm offended that not wearing a rainbow lanyard would make anyone assume I was!!

I'm a veggie (for example) and I have other beliefs but I wouldn't wear a badge or anything else to advertise them. I just wouldn't - and I'd be furious with anyone who tried to make me.

Personally I would make a complaint about the person giving the course calling you cis, if you have a union talk to them about it

@IzzyHandsIsMySpiritAnimal Alright then, you sound pretty woke. So why are you appropriating Native American culture by using the term 'spirit animal' with regards to a fictional character in your username? If you're that worried about equal opportunities you should know Native Americans have still got the shitty end of the stick even now.

Too late now but I would have told them "how dare you assume my gender?", flounced and spent the afternoon with a coffee and a good book.

You may have missed a trick; you could have just said that you don't identify as a cis woman.

I have no problem using people preferred pronouns etc, live & let live, but that must go both ways. If you don’t want to be referred to as cis then that should also be respected

Seems to me your identity of who you are (well fact) is not being respected.

I might say something like

”I absolutely support people being addressed as they want to be and treated with respect. Personally I have a complicated relationship with gender as my experience of it as a woman in the workplace has been that it invites assumptions and expectations I don’t feel comfortable being placed on me. I prefer being addressed as a woman, based on my sex class. I feel uncomfortable with gender identities when my experience with them has been they are something imposed on me rather than an internal conviction or sense of self. Being pushed to rebrand something I’ve experienced as oppression as identify is unpleasant and alienating. I try to support/include other people in a way that is genuine to me rather than symbolic. I’m open to discussion but I feel like real inclusion has to make room for different ways of engaging with gender identities.

@wherearethemarsbars it seems that you are being unlawfully discriminated against because of your belief.

rhe training session setting out an opposing ideological belief was mandatory (i think from you OP)? I can’t imagine a scenario where (for example) a Muslim colleague is forced to sit through a talk on Christianity and why it’s very important? Or even colleagues being offered the equivalent mandatory training on being gender critical?

then when you very politely said something which showed you don’t believe in that ideology, you have been reprimanded (subjected to a detriment).

have there been other incidents - training, posters, events, declarations following the Supreme Court judgement?

it would be a pretty low value claim as it stands but it’s discrimination nonetheless. And if you claim now you are also protected from further victimisation.

Yes everyone should be nice to everyone

and that includes accepting that women in particular often don’t have a gender or would like to fully reject gender. It means not calling people names they find offensive. Especially names that are lies.

I guess it’s hard for a man, and especially one who feels themselves transgender, to understand why a woman who might feel her gender is masculine rather than feminine would nevertheless not see that as important

because women are hurt because of their sex and without lots of self harm ( surgery, hormones and a lot of luck ) they will always be seen a treated as women - as second class citizens whose opinions are wrong

indeed the typical woman might be inclined to say .. if we did away with gender and let everyone be themselves without any judgement based on sex the world would be a better place. Wear what you like, call yourself what you like. Don’t be presumptuous enough to think that means you know how others feel.

You were setting a very good example. Well done, and good luck.

Nobody has been physically attacked. What does that relate to?

Also if people want to be referred to as them, they should respect my right to be called a woman. Since as you point out @IzzyHandsIsMySpiritAnimal everyone should have the same opportunities.

I think you made an important point which they should take on board.

They assumed you identified as "cis", which you did not so you were offended.

When dealing with patients and colleagues, nobody should be assuming anyone's beliefs. This should be reflected in the language you use.

"Do you identify as transgender?" is a question you can reasonably ask anyone without offence.

"Are you cis or trans" is offensive to those who do not hold a belief in gender identity. Like asking "are you a protestant or a Catholic" would be to someone with a different or no religion.

The term 'cis' involves signing up to a belief system (that transwomen are a subset of women, not biological men) that the (vast?) majority of posters on this board resoundingly reject.

I am not a cis woman. I am a woman. If someone asked for my experiences as a cis woman I hope I'd be as gutsy as the OP and say that I didn't have any, as I am not one, and object to being called one, but would be happy to share my experiences of being a human female. And get well stuck in on all that shit that unfortunately defines much of the female experience: the casual misogyny from childhood, the less-casual misogyny from a couple of bosses over the course of my working life (including the psycho who spent about 20 minutes shouting at me, and the one who blocked my promotion for a year), getting blood on clothes and sheets when menstruating (especially during and in the years after puberty, just when you're at peak the embarrassment age), being so laid out with period pain you can barely walk, sexual harassment (plenty of that, until you become invisible), having men use their superior strength against you (and then objecting when you hit them in the nuts because 'that's not fair'), bearing the burden of reproduction (yes, I wanted DC but I hated being pregnant: morning sickness, backache, the feeling of my body not being my own), menopause and all its attendant joys (hot flushes, memory loss so that you're wonder if you're developing early-onset Alzheimer's, balance issues so that you worry you've got some neurological disorder, sleeplessness, your skin going to shit over the course of a couple of years) and - as I head into old age - the risks of prolapse (family history of it) and osteoporosis.

Sure, there are downsides to being a bloke (when young, the risks of violent interactions are higher; when old, your prostate seems almost guaranteed to cause gyp) but being a woman brings a LOT of baggage.

'Cis' woman? That term can bloody do one. I am a woman. End of.

And - hurrah! - it has been confirmed that the law says so.

Interesting that inclusiveness only applies to your co-worker, while are not allowed to define your identity

You're a massive hypocrite. Coercively assuming the OP's gender.

Can you tell me how the OP is attacking anyone by referring to herself as a woman? Bet you can't.

“Please don’t label me as CIS based on how I look, I prefer not to discuss how I identify”

turn it around, YOU are being discriminated against

I agree. The term cisgender or ciswoman carries the clear connotation that the user believes in gender ideology. It is not at all a simple description. If you don't actually accept the premise of gender ideology you are entitled to refuse to play along with the terminology.

I was responding to the OP who was disputing being cisgender.
I honestly don't know why people are so concerned about what a "man" or "woman" are. Everyone deserves to be treated with courtesy and to not be physically attacked by anyone else. People should not be treated differently because of what is in their underwear. Everyone should have the same opportunities.

Oh wow! Not great. In your shoes I would put down a marker just to protect myself. Have a look at the Sex Matters website for help with what to say. Maybe something along the lines of " I found it quite distressing to be asked to participate in ideology I don't support and even more to receive what felt like a reprimand for having what I consider to be perfectly normal, reasonable views. I don't wish to challenge how individual colleagues want to express themselves but I also feel I should not have to participate in forms of speech whichI consider to be incorrect. I would hope that my point of view could be respected as well as that of other people" good luck