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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Pulled up at work for ‘trans views’

488 replies

wherearethemarsbars · 01/05/2025 08:45

Recently, a colleague at my company has declared that they are ‘agender’ and asexual and has asked to be addressed as ‘they’. As a result, my company decided to arrange a trans training session where some trans people came in to talk to us all about gender and terminology etc etc.

During this session, I was asked to describe my experience of living as a ‘cis woman’. I said that I didn’t have any experience of living as a cis woman, only as a woman so I couldn’t comment. I was pressed further and didn’t say much, only that the term ‘cis woman’ doesn’t align with my personal beliefs of what a woman is, so therefore declined to comment any further.

A few days later, I was pulled up on this by management who said that my behaviour was not acceptable and that I should be making an effort to be inclusive to everyone. I’m a bit baffled. Can I get others’ thoughts on this topic?

OP posts:
chaosmaker · 01/05/2025 11:12

Surely 'cis' is an exclusive term as in excluding. The very opposite of inclusive which is something agreed with.

LobeliaBaggins · 01/05/2025 11:11

Gender ideology is a religion. Like all religions, it is unsupported by facts or science, so you can't force people to abide by your religious terms or beliefs.

proximalhumerous · 01/05/2025 11:10

IzzyHandsIsMySpiritAnimal · 01/05/2025 11:02

Cis is short for Cisgender which means someone whose gender identity matches their sex assigned at birth.
So, if you're a woman, and when you were born you were female, then you're cisgender.

I don't think anyone on this thread doesn't know what it means. But personally I don't subscribe to the idea that my sex was "assigned at birth" by some sort of post-natal sorting hat, nor that I have a "gender identity" as opposed to just being the sex that I am.

Pillarsofsalt · 01/05/2025 11:09

Iwanttoliveonamountain · 01/05/2025 11:05

Just wondering, when did we all start ‘identifying’? I feel like it’s a misuse of the word. Me, I am a woman. If you want to find out more, get to know me.

People only use “I identify as” when they can’t say “I am”.

usually because they aren’t.

viques · 01/05/2025 11:09

wherearethemarsbars · 01/05/2025 09:08

Interesting, maybe I will. I was basically told that my behaviour wasn’t acceptable and that I should be making an effort to use inclusive terminology, and that I was undermining the point of the training session. Also that as a nurse in a senior position, I should be setting an example for junior colleagues 🤷‍♀️

Surely using terminology that describes 50% of the worlds population is inclusive?

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 01/05/2025 11:08

IzzyHandsIsMySpiritAnimal · 01/05/2025 11:02

Cis is short for Cisgender which means someone whose gender identity matches their sex assigned at birth.
So, if you're a woman, and when you were born you were female, then you're cisgender.

That is your belief system. In the UK, the Equality Act ensures that people with a belief that is worthy of respect in a democratic society must not be discriminated against for holding that view. Thanks to Maya Forstater, we know that believing that there are two sexes, that mammals are all either female or male, that nobody can change sex, and that it is therefore unnecessary to use this recent coinage 'cisgender', is a protected belief. It remains to be seen whether your belief system would pass the test if there is ever a court case about it.

CassOle · 01/05/2025 11:08

IzzyHandsIsMySpiritAnimal · 01/05/2025 11:02

Cis is short for Cisgender which means someone whose gender identity matches their sex assigned at birth.
So, if you're a woman, and when you were born you were female, then you're cisgender.

If you are a human female who does not believe in gender identity ideology, you are not 'cis', as you do not have a gender identity.

Edit. Also, a human male who does not believe in gender identity ideology is not 'cis', as he does not have a gender identity.

scoopoftheday · 01/05/2025 11:07

I'm new to all this

Is there a term for men that reflects the "cis woman" term?

OutandAboutMum1821 · 01/05/2025 11:07

BunnyLake · 01/05/2025 11:00

Why do people at work need to know someone is asexual?

This.

LobeliaBaggins · 01/05/2025 11:07

God, I miss the old times when we didn't bring our whole selves to work.

Iwanttoliveonamountain · 01/05/2025 11:05

Just wondering, when did we all start ‘identifying’? I feel like it’s a misuse of the word. Me, I am a woman. If you want to find out more, get to know me.

SidewaysOtter · 01/05/2025 11:04

BunnyLake · 01/05/2025 11:00

Why do people at work need to know someone is asexual?

Oh, they'll tell you.

OutandAboutMum1821 · 01/05/2025 11:04

I don’t think you’ve said anything wrong at all OP. I admire you for sticking to facts and refusing to be pressured by others. I’m always generally amazed how many adults forget that we don’t all have to agree (usually ones who think they are tolerant and respectful of difference, but are actually far from it 😂).

LatteLady · 01/05/2025 11:03

Does your setting have a Freedom to Speak up Guardian, if yes, then speak to them and explain that the interaction has made you feel uncomfortable and it is inappropriate to expect everyone to share their personal life if they have not agreed to do so.

CantStopMoving · 01/05/2025 11:03

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 01/05/2025 10:55

My brother is in an a-romantic, but sexual relationship with a non-binary transman who takes no hormones, wears long pig tails and pretty frilly frocks and I just see it as a lot of faff to explain that you're just in a casual heterosexual relationship.

do they sell cards for that in Clinton cards?

LobeliaBaggins · 01/05/2025 11:03

nauticant · 01/05/2025 09:27

I very much like the idea of getting them to put their views in writing.

Once they've done that and assuming what you received is nonsense I'd ask them whether the person who set out their position is fully informed about:
Forstater vs Centre for Global Development Europe, decided by the Employment Appeal Tribunal, and
For Women Scotland vs the Scottish Ministers, decided by the Supreme Court.

Then wait to see if they come back with a more sophisticated position. Minimise what you say, make them do the running.

+1000.

IzzyHandsIsMySpiritAnimal · 01/05/2025 11:02

wherearethemarsbars · 01/05/2025 08:45

Recently, a colleague at my company has declared that they are ‘agender’ and asexual and has asked to be addressed as ‘they’. As a result, my company decided to arrange a trans training session where some trans people came in to talk to us all about gender and terminology etc etc.

During this session, I was asked to describe my experience of living as a ‘cis woman’. I said that I didn’t have any experience of living as a cis woman, only as a woman so I couldn’t comment. I was pressed further and didn’t say much, only that the term ‘cis woman’ doesn’t align with my personal beliefs of what a woman is, so therefore declined to comment any further.

A few days later, I was pulled up on this by management who said that my behaviour was not acceptable and that I should be making an effort to be inclusive to everyone. I’m a bit baffled. Can I get others’ thoughts on this topic?

Cis is short for Cisgender which means someone whose gender identity matches their sex assigned at birth.
So, if you're a woman, and when you were born you were female, then you're cisgender.

CantStopMoving · 01/05/2025 11:02

Merrymouse · 01/05/2025 10:44

The Supreme Court Judgement only affected definition of sex in the EA.

People can continue to use 'cis' if they want, and other people can continue to find it offensive.

True but in effect the Equality act is the prevailing legislation that guides how we are now interacting in public spaces going forwards from shops to toilets to commercial enterprises etc. It makes sense that we aren’t using 2 sets of definitions. In the OP’s case it is work place so the Equality act is what needs to be followed

Springtimehere · 01/05/2025 11:01

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

BunnyLake · 01/05/2025 11:00

Why do people at work need to know someone is asexual?

proximalhumerous · 01/05/2025 10:59

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 01/05/2025 10:55

My brother is in an a-romantic, but sexual relationship with a non-binary transman who takes no hormones, wears long pig tails and pretty frilly frocks and I just see it as a lot of faff to explain that you're just in a casual heterosexual relationship.

Good grief. I would imagine by the time his partner had decided which toilet matched all of those identities she'd have wet herself.

Swampdonkey123 · 01/05/2025 10:59

I think I'd be asking why the rules are different for you and your colleague. They get to be known as they choose, but you have to accept being referred to as cis, when it is not something you identify as. That would be a good start.

Pinepeak2434 · 01/05/2025 10:56

This kind of situation concerns me because I tend to be very direct and clear about my views and feelings. I also don’t personally use or identify with the term 'cis,' and I would have expressed myself in a similar way to what was said. If someone chooses to ask me questions about my views, I believe it's important to be prepared for honest answers. If I were then called into a meeting about it, I might end up in more trouble by pointing out that people shouldn’t ask questions if they’re not open to hearing a truthful response.

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 01/05/2025 10:55

ItisntOver · 01/05/2025 10:53

You might think that but there are several, seemingly contradictory, meanings of “asexual”.

My brother is in an a-romantic, but sexual relationship with a non-binary transman who takes no hormones, wears long pig tails and pretty frilly frocks and I just see it as a lot of faff to explain that you're just in a casual heterosexual relationship.

Shadowsunray · 01/05/2025 10:54

Puttinginthemiles · 01/05/2025 08:54

I'd ask them to put their concerns in writing to me. That would be very interesting.

Brilliant, I'd do this first and then follow up with my suggestion above afterwards.

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