Trans men using female spaces

But you want trans women (who, under your worldview, are male) to have to use male spaces? How is that safe/fair?

I'd personally like to see all loos being either single-cubicle or completely unisex. I do not have a good suggestion for hospitals, but I can see why transwomen wouldn't want to be on male wards.

I'll be as kind as the TRAs as demonstrated by terfisaslur.com

Yes, mostly made up.

Gender dysphoria is no longer deemed to be a requirement in order to be considered trans. So what do you think makes someone trans if they don't have gender dysphoria?

Assuming you know people who use they/them pronouns do you refuse to do that too?

Lovely.

It's not only trans people who have a very tough time.

Kindness is a two way street and so is being accepting.

Women have rights and needs too, and are not service providers.

Whereas I chose to be accepting, and not make harder for someone who's already had a very tough time, being trans. Some kindness would be good here.

Serious question: do you think being trans is just made up?

I'm sorry, I'm confused.

By 'discriminate' do you mean 'ask to use gender neutral/mixed sex provision instead of the women's, in situations where someone who has gone to a lot of trouble to look male, looks male enough to distress women who may be in need of a single sex space?

Then I guess it's okay to discriminate against migrants cos they "chose to come here", and against muslims because they "chose to be muslims".

No because that would be racist and you would be using people of colour to make your offensive false comparison.

Yes, you are clearly baffled.

No. I get to choose the words I use

I'm baffled by a lot of the arguments on this thread.
It's okay to discriminate based on appearance because they "chose" to look like this ? Then I guess it's okay to discriminate against migrants cos they "chose to come here", and against muslims because they "chose to be muslims".

Transwomen are men whatever they look like but somehow transmen are not women because...? They "don't pass" but someone could be upset by their appearance somehow ? Either they do look like men, or they don't.

A little bit of consistancy rather than picking and choosing based on what suits you at any given time would go a long way.

They can apply them to themselves then.

We don't have to agree with them.

Correctly sexing is fine.

Genderism is sexism.

We don't have to validate lies.

Oh should I?

No I don't know any non binary periods.

No - pronouns are very much the choice of the person they apply to. You should listen and act accordingly. Don't you know any non binary period who use 'they'? I find that hard to believe!

There's a third option along with "ignorant " and "deliberately rude" and it is truthful

So you'd be completely happy for a trans man to use female toilets, no matter how embarrassing that would be for him?

I'm not sure if you're being ignorant or deliberately rude here, but misgendering trans people (deliberately?) like this really isn't a good look.

Congratulations. You just discovered the TRA modus operandi where every answer gives the most persecuted response regardless of whether it completely contradicts what was said 5 minutes ago or whether it's complete nonsense.

Nah, we've already been assured by TRAs that no man would pretend to be trans, that's why we didn't have to worry about men using womens loos when transwomen were let in, remember? Surely that hasn't just changed to suit the TRA argument??

I dont think its helpful to focus this discussion on toilets, the place where it is more of an issue is hospital wards. Hospitals will have to find solutions, which will likely be ward of biological sex. Where it will be a whole lot easier is breastfeeding groups. No need for any biological men there.

So basically if you are a trans man, it's better that you DON'T pass... Because this means less problems for you.

They cannot be left with no facilities, I think
practically speaking what will happen is they will use the accessible toilet, and because there are relatively small numbers it won’t make a huge difference to the people who actually need the accessible toilet, goodness knows I’ve had to use them enough times for the baby change.

I don't think we are doing anyone a favour by minimising this, first because it is difficult and second because its an issue that is seen to be difficult by many and so if we try and brush it under the carpet it will back fire
There are solutions - but these will not be the provision of only single sex spaces. I think we have, for example, won the argument on shared open spaces with cubicles - but I think we have to compromise on using the same room that has a floor to ceiling lockable door with a sink inside as men in some places.

It doesn’t count as ‘passing’ just because nobody points it out.

I personally don’t feel the need to shout out ‘you’re a man’ any time I see a man obviously trying to look like a woman. If he’s mooching around the supermarket minding his own business then he’s just living his life. If he’s in a women’s space then I would feel justified in challenging him.