Wetherspoons on the SC Ruling

But if they don't, they can't call it a female or woman's space because both of those words now mean single sex, no men with or without certificates.

Quite

Pondering changing genders absolutely DOES NOT count as a protected characteristic.

Great idea. We'll all identify as being staff. Problem solved!

Yes, or if what they say is true, I'm going be most comfortable using the staff toilet.

This is not what Tim Martin said on Preston the other night. He basically said that trans people can use the disabled toilets. He also said that they're currently making sure they're providing single sex toilets for their staff. I'm no Tim Martin fan btw.

"any transgender person is entitled to use whichever toilet where they feel most comfortable using[sic], whether that be male. female, or access toilets."

So they are encouraging able-bodied to use the disabled loos? That's not on.

Hmm, which toilet do I feel most comfortable using? The answer is probably "not a Wetherspoons".

They must provide single sex toilets but can also provide mixed sex toilets too. Employers must also provide single sex toilets for their employees but can also provide mixed sex toilets.
Unsurprisingly, wetherspoons’ interpretation of the Equality Act is wrong. Anyone who falls within any of the protected characteristics cannot be treated less favourably in certain situations. So a TW cannot be refused entry to the pub just because they identify as a TW, but they CAN be denied entry to a single sex ladies toilets BECAUSE they are male. Allowing TW into the ladies toilets could result in a claim for discrimination from men if they weren’t allowed in the ladies. The comparator would be sex - you would be discriminating against some men on the basis of sex.

And they'd have to convert them all to floor to ceiling doors and handbasins in each. Since they currently don't even fund much in the way of cleaning that seems unlikely!

The issue with single cubicles is that men piss on the seat.

Men and women are designed differently and need different provision

https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/the-truth-about-toilets/

This is Sex Matters guide to loos.

Just changing stickers to say unisex on traditional mens or women's loos is inadequate provision.
"Unisex" loos have to be fully enclosed lockable rooms with handbasin and dryer.
If loos are labelled eg men/women, gents/ladies or by stick people to indicate that then they must be for single sex only, based on biological sex.

If an organisation decides to go down the unisex route it will very quickly find that they are beset by incidents of sexual assault and misbehaviour - which threatens their customers; especially in the night time economy or in any place in which alcohol is sold.

Yes, we've been enabling and feeding narcissism, and narcissism can never get enough of what it needs.....and as a result it simply keeps on demanding more in a futile attempt to fill the void.

I can see that younger people are going to start to be more open to religious faith than they have been for a long time. Those deep needs for acceptance and love cannot be met sufficiently by political ideology and activism.

On a previous thread regarding loos at various London theatres I mentioned the Royal Court with its 'five cubicles and 4 urinals' (i.e. Men but they don't say so) and '7 cubicles' (i.e. Women ditto) signage; plus a reminder to Be Kind.

I'm going this week and it will be interesting to see if they've changed anything. They were just typed-up pieces of paper so not a big job to comply with the SC ruling.

The ruling says that any facility that is designated 'single sex' means exactly that. Only people of that sex may use that facility. To permit those who are not of that sex to enter means you are falling foul of the equalities act and the protections it affords for the category of 'Sex'.

Yes Tim was Brexit and no dogs and we loved his pubs. Surprised he thinks men are women

They do have to provide single sex toilets for staff.

I know we've had, quite literally, years and years on this board of watching optics play out, and predicting exactly how it's going to look. And have been proved right every time.

And I can just see this one happening.

Female customers complaining to managers that they're being forced to share toilets with drunk, gobby men but the staff aren't.

It won't look good for Mr Wetherspoon. Especially if he says no, but they would've done, but my hands were tied

It comes from a political group that believes, like a small child, that unless they have everything, that they don't have enough. Unless women are visibly trampled, the political lobby members haven't been shown enough 'love'. You have to hurt women to prove they're more important.

Equity and provision for all won't do.

This is exactly why women have to have cast iron protections in law that cannot be messed with. Men as a sex class have proved beyond all doubt that it is necessary.

It means that if spaces are designated as single sex then they must be single sex.

It was explicitly noted that this includes spaces labelled as female, women, with a “female” sign or any other proxy for “sex”.

However, Weatherspoons do not have to offer single sex spaces to their customers, and can designate all toilets mixed sex, presumably by changing the signage.

Whether this is indirectly discriminatory to the female sex probably needs to be tested legally.

They do have to provide single sex toilets for staff.

This issue of let's just label everything unisex is going to have to be addressed by the guidance.

It clearly, and statistically, disadvantages women. Therefore it will not be considered a fair solution.

It's also bloody cowardly. These people would rather actually endanger women, than stand up for them in the most equitable way possible that takes everyone into account.

What could possibly be fairer than men's, women's, and mixed sex??

The only people who don't want that are the men who want to use the women as validation tools.

It's absolutely astonishing that they're getting huge swathes of corporations to agree with them.

Fortunately, I don't think the law will.

The law means that they should not be labelling toilets male/men or female/women if they are in fact mixed sex.

So if Wetherspoons want to put their money where their mouth is they need to convert all their toilets to unisex, which includes removing all urinals.

And enclosed single use rooms.

But it's a bit stupid to release a 'we dont follow the law or respect the right of women not to be discriminated against' statement.

Mo they don’t have too but what they must do it to be clear whther the provision is single sex or mixed sex so if the sign says womens then it can only be biological women. If they want to let TW use tjen too then it must be correctly labelled mixed sex

IANAL, but it is my understanding that while pubs and other places that provide toilets for their customers do not have to provide single-sex toilets, if they label them single-sex — ie, Men/Women, male symbol/female symbol, Ladies/Gents — then they must be single-sex. Also I think they can’t provide only a Men/Everyone else option. If they offer men the chance to have a single-sex option, they must give women the same. They can re-label all their toilets as unisex though.

I think they got emailed on Friday or Saturday and the EHRC guidance was published around 9pm on Friday to virtually no media coverage because of the pops funeral. I suspect the first most ppl at Spoons HQ will Know about this is what they may have seen vaguely on
tje media yesterday

I expect there will be some rowing back