Reasons you once believed in gender identity

I never believed in it I sensed bullshit from day one. I could not believe it actually escalated to the point medical scientific language was changed and men could apparently have babies and chest feed.
I thought the world had gone mad.

That was me, too.

It was just so odd it kept coming out like it was a thoughtless mantra…ie he couldn’t finish a sentence about it without saying she was a fucking TERF. He never used that language about anyone else. It made it so difficult to talk to him about it. It was so strange and he “confessed” to me that he doesn’t believe in horoscopes and you can see that he was really worried who would hear him. The icing on the cake was when he bought the Harry Potter game! I was prepared for next time why he doesn’t say the same about Ricky Gervais.

We haven’t seen each other since the announcement ( lots of public holidays in NZ) but I have found myself preparing for it just in case it comes up. I swing between being really understanding to wanting to shut him down.

Worked for a few.

Thought it was just a human quirk and a rather harmless one until Bruce Jenner said, "The hardest thing about being a woman is deciding what to wear each day" when interviewed as "Time Woman of the Year".

I was so offended by not only the nomination, but the sheet diminishment of women. I have refused to accept TWAW since.

I tried to read why TWAW sincerely back in 2019. I parked my feeling until I started realising they were taking women's sporting accolades.

Stumbling across the trans-widows threads on here was an initial eye-opener as to how selfish trans behaviour could be. That was a starting point for me to think about it more.

But also the whole teen trans trend made me think back to my own teenage experience. I hated puberty and my changing body, hated periods, was flabbergasted by Judy Blume trying to celebrate it all (!). I used to daydream/fantasise all sorts of 'escape' things, which very definitely included storylines of 'I should be a boy' or 'I wish I was a boy'. Of course I can easily see now that was nothing more than a superficial desire and just a wish to not have to face the tough-shit change of growing up. Surprise surprise I turned out to be a perfectly average heterosexual adult woman, no drama. But there but for the grace of God went I - if I had been open about similar feelings as a teen these days maybe I'd have been getting my puberty blockers or worse?! Thinking about that made me feel very very strongly about how dangerous the whole teen trans thing is.

Well, when Penis news published this as an article, you have to question just how many people really did believe the mantra. Mind you, I think I would hesitate to answer a question from them too.

https://archive.is/Aud8S

“We asked Labour’s 59 LGBTQ+ MPs if they think trans women are women – just four replied saying yes”

The Hayley character was written specifically in order to try and win public perception over for trans people. Which is why they intentionally cast a woman to play Hayley rather than a man. It was a deliberate attempt to convey a gentle unassuming “she’s just like other women” message. And it was so convincing that hardly any viewers batted an eye at the story line where she assisted a 14 year old girl being fitted for her new bra. Because by then we all thought “aaah wee Hayley”. Not, “goodness that’s an adult man underwear shopping with a teenage girl”. It was underhand, and orchestrated almost solely by a trans person…

None of the above. Back in the Coronation Street Hayley/Roy story and that film where he reveals he's a man after posing as a female when they first go to have sex I had sympathy with the main characters, yet even as a youngster felt really bad for the men being deceived. I would have treated Hayley as female if I'd been in the sewing factory but would never have thought he was a she. But that character presented in a more feminine way, she was kind, helpful,took on other pov, non violent. Unfortunately recent events have shown tw very differently, no respect for women at all

I never believed twaw but I also never had an issue with trans women until I read a Reddit post by a young woman talking about how much she wanted to be inclusive to a trans woman in her yoga class but that ‘her’ erections were upsetting. This young woman, a victim of sexual assault, was tying herself up in knots about her reaction to a fully aroused male in a place that had felt safe. I was absolutely horrified and everything I’ve seen or read since has deepened my conviction that women need single sex spaces, sports and protections.

Not really. They're lovely people who genuinely believe that TERFs/transphobes are in the same category as racists and homophobes. I can't criticise them, because if one of my friends started saying that gay people shouldn't be able to marry, or that refugees deserved to drown in the sea, I'd be giving them serious side-eye and unfriending on FB/IRL. Maybe that makes me controlling, I don't know! 😅

Unfortunately, TRAs have convinced a good chunk of people that people who think that biology is relevant, and single sex spaces/sporting categories should be based on it, are pretty much Nazis that want trans people to be eradicated. It's a bit of a weird cognitive dissonance - they'll believe the worst of women who don't want penises in their changing rooms, but can't believe that any male claiming to be a woman might not be 100% on the level, especially when they're swinging their meat and two veg around.

There's also the small matter that most of my friends I've met through work, and in an industry where word travels fast and everyone knows everyone...

I wrote a whole screed, but...

1. Youthful innocence and accepting what I was told... but then...
2. Meeting a TW. And another. And another. And another. None of whom seemed like women to me. The one who had spent many years in a weird religious sect, then became a card carrying person with autism, then "a woman" - I mean yeah, if that's not someone clutching on whatever to fill the void inside...
3. Lived bio experience of me (PMS, contraception, ovulation pain, being weaker, slower, smaller than men no matter how I trained and what I ate, menopause) and friends and family (endo, breast cancer, ovarian cysts, pregnancy, birth, nursing, mastitis, miscarriage and stillbirth)
4. Social experience ditto. Who raises the kids? Who cares for the sick and elderly? Yeah.
5. Sporting experience. "Amateur level doesn't matter". Well, when a good-for-age time gets you hundreds off the entry fee and they take the fastest N "women" in an age category, then a man in those N runners means a woman is hundreds out of pocket so yes, it fucking well does matter.
6. Local crime stories. Remember the case where a woman was arrested for murdering a stranger and killing a cat and ... ? Yeah that sounds wrong. No, it wasn't a woman. The grieving family were all too real though.
7. MN pointing out more of the same.

Am I a sniveling coward circumspect in my views? I don't lie or misrepresent my opinions, but people by and large are remarkably self involved and tend not to ask. I don't seek out rows, they don't normally do any good. But I do make a point if I have direct experience I can offer.

In my old age, I try to listen more. But also, I make the decisions I want to. I even voted for the Tory PCC candidate because he'd made his position on sex vs gender clear, I agreed with it, and he seemed otherwise competent and sensible.

Don't you wonder about your friends that would disown you for it?
I do understand about your job of course, but doesn't that make your friends controlling and actually not friends at all?

I think I have to echo others about being radicalised Mumsnet! 😅

I came on here after getting pregnant, and ended up on the feminism boards. When people kept listing there the stuff that TRAs say 'never happens' (male rapists identifying their way into female prisons and assaulting women, male sex offenders being described as women in the press), and the TRA attitude of "transwomen are women, it doesn't matter if they have a penis, lesbians are bigots/perverts if they don't accept that"... well, sympathy starts to wear a bit thin.

There's also the horrifying abuse of JK Rowling. I admit there's part of me that thinks that sometimes she pushes it a bit far, but given the abuse she got after her initial very measured, intelligent essay on why biological sex is a reality and important... I can't say that I blame her. It's not just people vocally disagreeing with her, it's the vitriolic - and often misogynistic - shit that's thrown her way.

I cannot say any of this IRL, as I would lose my job, and most of my friends. I can't share photos of visiting the Harry Potter Tour, or talk about reading the book to my son.

I don’t think any of those options quite fit. I think it’s more that I never actually believed TWAW but also believed live and let live - and I genuinely didn’t realise some people thought TWAW REALLY were women. Also just my personal situation that a lot of the crazy stuff was happening when I was having my babies, and I wasn’t really paying much attention. I’ve never been on twitter/X much either.
I think the one that fits best is probably afraid to think about it but I think didn’t think about it is more accurate for me

I was young and open minded and grew up seeing the world open up and accept gay people, and I accepted the idea that "hormones in the womb, female brain in a male body" meant trans people were born to be trans like gay people are born to be gay (I'm more flexible about that now as well, but at the time right thinking people accepted that being born gay was the counter to claims that homosexuality was just a lifestype choice)

And I thought that drag queens and trans women showing how "female" interests and presentation could be done by men would lessen the stereotypes about women

And I was a feminist who didn't believe that men and women think that differently underneath and most of the differences in our interests and abiliities just come down to opportunity and encouragement

And then I realised that one of those things was not like the others, and since I believe number 3 very strongly I could not also believe number 1.

Number 2 was a bust altogether :(

Never believed TWAW.

used to teach gender topic as part of A level psychology so was already aware of gender dysphoria. I accepted that soms
people had gender dysphoria and that transitioning might be the best treatment if nothing else had worked to help them cope. But I never believed that they actually became women.
really started following the issue online from 2016 and was shocked people actually believed people could change sex.

I started off very accepting of transwomen and trans men and conseiderd myself respectful towards them. but it was the puberty blockers and sports issue that made me more vocal in opposition.

my beliefs are just the same today really as they were in 2016. I still believe that for a minority, transitioning might be the best treatment but only after much therapy and deserve respect and kindness. However, I think a significant amount are just confused, misguided lesbians/ gender non - conforming girls (who I also feel sorry for) and some of the men are just AGP (who I don’t feel sorry for at all).

I never believed it, because after about 30 seconds of critical thinking it's glaringly obvious that TWAW is impossible horseshit.

You can't feel like anything except what you are, because you're still a male, feeling like a male who believes he feels like a woman.

In truth, Shania Twain should probably take some of the blame for this mess.

I have never believed in gender identity and I never will. It's beyond logic, science, rational. I read about gender dysphoria as a mental disorder and I believe it can be hard to live with, and I have compassion for those who are plagued by it.

When one of my dd's said that a trans woman is a woman, my brain executed a Tsukahara pike, short circuited and died for few seconds. I couldn't even speak. She was a student, high IQ, very smart and well read....I couldn't understand how was she able to say that and believe it?! I think it was more because of the social entourage, but still, shocking!. She came around, but still cannot explain how did she get to THAT conclusion and belief

As a society we only normalised the perverts. They are the ones worried about not having access to women's spaces. Also every failed sportsman can chase glory and recognition in women's sports. How can some people agree with this it is beyond my understanding. Promoting the ideology in schools is scandalous, some of the books shouldn't be near a child, and still, I see women agreeing with the whole process. How?!

A mixture of "playing along" and "too scared to think about it". Im not hugely into politics but like others, I've always considered myself "left wing" and inclusive.

I remember in a pub a couple of years ago with a group of work colleagues, a very progressive friend was vocal about JKR being a bigot/anti trans. I just nodded along mindlessly agreeing because... well, who wants to be seen as siding with a biggot? One of the men asked, "what was it she actually said?" And when she told him, he responded "I mean... that's a valid opinion." And the conversation moved on

What's so striking is that the so called progressives are allowed to be so loud and entitled about their opinions, and it's pro women people like me who are shamed. I still haven't spoken to anyone other than my partner and you lot on mumsnet about my true feelings and am dreading the day someone speaks to me about it IRL because I'm genuinely worried of what they will think of me.

I originally approached this from a position of “be kind”.

I was talking to my then toddler about gender and I found myself saying that some women had a penis. In my head I had a wtf moment and couldn’t figure out how to ‘be kind’ while also not wanting to lie about reality.

Saw friends posting in support of Danielle Muscato and was curious if they actually believed this person to be a woman simply by declaring it.

Started reading mumsnet FWR board to try to understand more about how to talk about gender. And then learned very quickly that ‘be kind’ could cause lots of issues for many people.

Started watching Magdalen Berns videos and listening to Lisa Muggeridge about safeguarding. Read Rebecca Reilly-Cooper’s ‘Gender is Not a Spectrum’ and things started becoming a lot clearer in my head. Read more about the situation in Canada with Yaniv and male sex offenders in women’s prisons. Became angrier about the treatment of vulnerable women.

Went to the first For Women Scotland meeting on my own and walked nervously past protesters outside mindlessly chanting TWAW slogans. Wondered why it was hateful to discuss proposed changes in legislation

Became more curious why people were scared to have a conversation about this. Realised I worked for an organisation intolerant of anything other than TWAW. Spoke up where I felt I could. Kept my mouth shut more times than I wish I had done. Donated whenever I could. Read, shared, lost some ‘friends’.

I still approach this from a position of ‘be kind’ but now I realise lying to vulnerable people that they can actually change their sex is the opposite of kind.

I never imagined anyone would mean it literally, ie biologically - I thought it was just something you said to avoid upsetting a vulnerable and benign group of people (inasmuch as I'd thought about the issue at all). It wasn't until JK Rowling tweeted about it that I started to look into the issue further.

@StormyPotatoes motherhood also radicalised me in the same ways as you and more.

Pregnancy, birth and nursing were so much more physical and biological than I was expecting. It made me respect and admire the female sex and being female, whereas before my experience of female biology was almost entirely negative compared to males - nothing positive about periods, having boobs that rivalled the prow of the titanic and getting unwelcome male attention.

I met a lot of wonderful women as a result - having studied and worked in mainly male dominated topics and industries I didn't have as many female friends as I do now. I don't know why I found female friendships so hard as a younger woman but developing them later on has been a great joy.

I realised that my babies were very definitely one sex or another and how much sexist shit was heaped upon them by society from day one. I remember supporting let toys be toys right here on MN! So the concept of "gender" quickly came into focus as a pile of sexist sterotypical bullshit from the day I had DS1.

And finally, I don't think I really truly believed in the patriarchy until I had DS1 and flew into it like a bird flying into a glass french window. It was always there, I just somehow thought the battles had been won! Girls can do anything, as a mid/late 90s teen girl and then into the workplace in the mid 00s, it was all girl power and equality and girl bosses etc. Then I got pregnant and the scales fell from my eyes.

This is a mighty fine thread and I’m finding the answers really interesting. I’ve recently set one of my friends on the road to GC discovery, can’t wait to see what she’s got to say next time I see her (having never discussed it until the SC ruling!)

You know what, now I've read some other posts and had a think, I never really believed that a person could change sex, but I was willing to believe that people could "feel like" the opposite sex. I've always believed (and known) that sexuality was innate, so I'm not sure why I thought a person could literally feel like the other sex when how could they?! The literally would never have the experiences required, let alone the physical attributes!

I'm baffled by myself tbh. I can only think that as a woman, I was so used to "being nice" and capitulating, that it just felt natural.

Trust, I've beaten that out of myself now!

Nope. Not for one nano-second. I always knew it was complete nonsense.
Then I was accused by a friend who has a trans m-f, of being transphobic. When I was nothing other than sympathetic to mum's situation, that was the end for me.