New wave of Trans Allies needed

I’m referring to biological women who identify as men.

They will now have to use women’s toilets, yet many look very masculine - google images of trans men.

Yes, but according to TRAs, this never happens. They can't dismiss it to push one argument, then claim it's a reality when it suits them.

Realistically, if women see a transman in the toilet and genuinely think it's a man, what's going to happen? Are they going to start mouthing off and threatening violence? No. They'll do what every other woman does when they feel uncomfortable because of a man - leave and either quietly mention it to management or more likely, say nothing at all and maybe make a thread here.

And the transman will, at most, be pleased that they passed as a man.

Body shape and size are usually a bit of a giveaway, despite modifications.

So, many trans men look very masculine (beards etc) because of the hormones they take. However, these trans men, being biological women, will now have to use female toilets.

Problem?

Doesn’t this open up the opportunity for a biological man, with devious intent, to enter a female toilet and, if challenged, claim to be trans?

Maybe they could take to carrying round and offering incontinence pads?
(Prostate charities genuinely advocate for bins etc so men can deal with their common, typically age-related problems.)
Tennant should lead the way with another T-shirt slogan.

I've found it quite interesting that the response from some men has been to say that they don't want the creepy men in their toilets either. Makes me think that perhaps the reason why a lot of men didn't kick up a fuss about weird men being in the female toilets was that they're not actually that bothered if women are used to solve the problem of weird men.

Patriarchy remains strong.

To be quite frank it is often the trans allies who have been the most unhinged...they have not helped the situation at all.

From accounts I have heard some have in part being using the men's to avoid causing discomfort to women by using their facilities. Rather than as part of their validation as being men. I suspect they don't pass that well really but the consideration for others is appreciated. Someone wrote in to a podcast and said thank god I can use the ladies now, the men's are disgusting.
Legally they should always have used the women's. If TIW want to continue using the men's that's for men to complain about.

My prediction is that if there were more third spaces it would mainly be the TIW using them, and I'd forsee the number of TIM declining once the perks of hanging out in women's spaces and winning competitions they wouldn't even have qualified for in male categories are gone.

Shit it looks like friends/work mates have shared the toilets with DD

that did not happened

this is what happens when you don’t punctuate correctly

And agree with everyone as to what the reaction would have been if women had said the same thing

It does, according to my menfolk

even if they are related 😳

friends/workmates and i have continued conversations in the loos, have shared a toilet with dd many times ….so i do find it weird 😀

And 'as long as they don't do anything weird to make ME uncomfortable'... women feeling 'uncomfortable' was dismissed with #bekind...

I understand that there are strict, unspoken Rules of the Male Toilets that are often opposite to the Have-a-Chat-with-a-Stranger-While-Fixing-Your-Makeup approach of the women's loos but men are quick to enforce their boundaries here even in the hypothetical, in a way that women aren't allowed to.

I'm not complaining or coming at men, it's just interesting that men feel confident in saying what they won't accept, and assume that's the end of the matter. It never is for women, we always get pushback for asserting a boundary.

I don’t care about men’s toilet needs, it’s not my problem as a woman. Just OBEY THE LAW and stay out of women’s facilities (you weirdos for wanting to go into women’s spaces in the first place 🤬).

Isn't it interesting, though, that men don't want them in the men's because they often give them the creeps?

No. At my employer there are posters advertising 'Menopause sessions I can attend' and at a service station recently posters discussing periods. Oh and sanitary bins on the way out.

And yes these are the Gents loos

I just asked DH. His response was “if he’s just got his wanger out and having a wee I really don’t care.”

Yeah, my DH said similar to PP.

He doesn't care if a man wearing a dress uses the bathroom next to him. He is very aware of the physical power imbalance between men and women and also the statistics regarding sexual and violent crimes against women.

He is all for trans identifying males to use to spaces for their biological sex.

He did say he feels uncomfortable when he has experienced these males making sexual comments or wearing overly sexualised clothes.

One of these men who we came accross whilst on holiday in Cornwall kept loudly going on about being a "little girl" wearing "little girl panties". He used the men's toilets, which is I guess a positive in his favour. But he still made everyone around him so uncomfortable.

But DH said as long as they do their business and leave he doesn't know anyone that would give them any trouble, let alone making a rude comment.

I really do think this outrage over the violence that trans identifying males would experience in the men's toilets is absolute rubbish.

However the stats about women being at higher risk when spaces become mixed sex AREN'T rubbish.

To be fair,those are the crimes FOR EVERYONE, so no special treatment 😁

There will be guys who are actually gender non conforming. Gay guys. Really slight, small guys. Overweight guys. Elderly guys. Boys who are over 8 but not yet hit puberty, some with long hair and constantly mistaken for girls. Many transwomen will actually appear far more stereotypically macho than these other users of the men's.

I still do feel sorry for the post op minority. But fuck knows this mess wasn't women's fault.

Men do still remain the greatest threat to other men of course. The vast majority of violence local to me seems gang related (and therefore slips off the news rapidly despite these boys/men with less privilege also being actual humans too as well as sorely missed sons / brothers/ husbands.

There was a spate of homophobic attacks a few years ago in Clapham but they didn't attract much attention from LGBTQetc organisations (neither did the stabbing of gay men in Reading). I find that perplexing. Genuine, threatening transphobia is going to look very much like homophobia in the wild.

Yes, I apologise for the nightmare fuel😂

There are not. This is a really good idea!
But your follow up is horrific.

Massive posters of Owen Jones’ face stating “Be a p-ally”

Are there signs in men’s toilets telling the users to accept whoever is in there in the way women’s toilets have?

Posters reminding men to be kind?

I have no idea (and maybe there are) but if there aren’t that might be an easy start point.

I can't see violence being an issue in workplaces, restaurants, theatres, etc.
Conceivably in bars / nightclubs maybe?

Perhaps that's where male trans allyship is really needed. We could wear badges.

To be fair this applies to everyone in the men's loos.