New wave of Trans Allies needed

No, because biological men would never do that, we know because that's what trans activists told us when we raised the same concern with letting transwomen in our spaces. No man would pretend to be trans, remember?

In reality, not a problem, because they can be removed anyway.

I think that's unfair on (most of) us men. I definitely don't want creepy men to go into the Ladies toilets. They can use the Gents - but I will still be uncomfortable if they behave creepily. What I actually want is for them to stop being creepy.

Just to add - for public bodies who are also subject to the Public Sector Equality Duty under the EA, I would say it’s even more important for them to be crystal clear on their single-sex policies at the outset, to avoid women needing to challenge TW in the toilets. This can be achieved with clear messaging.

Ensuring that these two groups with protected characteristics aren’t placed in an awkward and potentially difficult situation in the first place is the best way for those public bodies to discharge their duty to foster good relations between women and trans people, which they’re obliged to do by law (especially now that the SC has clarified these are two separate groups).

I’m not the PP, but they are correct in saying the SC ruling doesn’t criminalise individuals for using the wrong toilet.

The EA places obligations on organisations not to discriminate, so the duty is on the provider of the toilets to enforce single-sex provision where it’s provided (which obviously might involve ejecting someone from the loo or premises to ensure others aren’t discriminated against on their watch).

Trans people aren’t legally obliged to change their behaviour as a result of the ruling - it’s for employers, service providers, etc to manage the situation and ensure that their single-sex facilities are actually that. So it’s for the organisations to ensure they don’t discriminate against women by letting males into women’s facilities, just as it always has been.

Of course, there are other laws that might make a certain situation veer into criminal territory (nuisance, antisocial behaviour, harassment, etc), so it doesn’t mean the manager has no power to control what goes on in their venue. And obviously that works both ways - IMO, it’s quite reasonable for a woman to ask a TW to leave the toilets, but not to call them derogatory names or hurl abuse at them while doing so (obviously!)

"We just want to pee" because we're six pints deep, broke the seal an hour ago, and we're far from finished drinking

Nope, never had a girlie chat either
Had a friend hold my hair back when I was being sick. Does that count? We didn't chat much though.

It's always tampons, isn't it? Never pads.

Ewww. I think I'd have had to have laughed with incredulity though.

Also apologies to @Scousemousey, I didn't notice your post before I said pretty much the same thing.

Some men have a weird fixation about putting things inside other things. For them, tampons appear to be an expression of this fixation.

My understanding is that EqA 2010 has exceptions, not exemptions, where equality law applies differently.

The EqA provides that where certain bodies (service providers, employers etc) want to rely on single sex exemptions to the general rule not to discriminate on the basis of sex, they need to be truly single sex, so no persons of the opposite sex. That does not mean that a TW commits an offence by using the ladies loos. However they might argue that they are being discriminated against on the basis of gender reassignment if there is nowhere they can pee (though I'm not sure if that would succeed as the other mem presumably use the men's loos).

I don't understand this post. What does the Supreme Court judgment mean then?

Same here. If I was ever caught by suprise I'd just make do with a bunch of loo roll - I'd never have asked a stranger for a tampon.
This is what made me doubt the story of the trans man who complained the police had harassed her in a Target store in the US. The story included a friend who was passing her a tampon and as that's a well worn TRA trope- I concluded the whole thing had been made up(or set up)

The ONLY person who has ever asked me for a tampon in a public woman's loo was a transwoman who goes to an activity group I attend.
(S)he said did I have one, as she'd been 'caught short'.
I just laughed and said "No, sorry, I'm 56, go figure..."

I'm generally lucky in that regard. I'm well over 6ft, fairly hefty, and have a menacing looking scar on my face (that looks dramatically less menacing once you find out I fell off a table while dancing).

Ruckus's have a way of dramatically disappearing when I ask "Is everything all right here?"

Although honestly I've never seen a fight in the mens, whereas I know of at least 2 attacks between women in the ladies toilets. As I said in my last message, the mens is very much a place of get in, pee, get out.

DH said he'd do his business and leave. He admitted that he might be taken aback.

Where do they get this idea that we all stand in the loos having "girly chats" from? In decades of using the ladies loos I can count on one hand the amount of times I've done that and only with my actual friends. And I've certainly never had to ask for or accept tampons from strangers.
Too much teenage American tv dramas being watched by TRAs methinks.

I asked DH
Don't know, don't care who is in the mens bogs as long as they come in, pee and leave and not stare at my willy at the Urinals.
I asked about TM specifically
They would be in a cubicle wouldn't they? Men never interact in the bogs anyway and rarely look at eachother long enough to notice anything so again, don't care.
What about TW?
No, you can't have men in the Ladies can you? Most of them are probably ok and I suppose if they just pee and leave then its not too bad but blokes can be pervs and sticking a dress on won't change that. And its your bogs so its up to you not me.

I can't imagine trans identified males going to the kind of bars or clubs where men might beat them up. But then it takes all sorts I guess

Would you ordinarily and automatically get involved in a ruckus in the public loo? Would it be contextual like this?

The Supreme Court judgment does not mean it is now illegal for trans women to use the ladies. If I see a transwoman in the ladies, I will not challenge her and nor will many women. I suspect this would be the case even if it had become a criminal offence, which it isn’t. Equally, I doubt many men care. They certainly haven’t given a shit whenever I’ve nipped in there when the queue for the ladies has been too long.

This thing with tampon chat in ladies loos. 🤔
I have never in my 60+ years ever had a girlie chat with a woman in a public toilet about tampons, other sanpro, or even lent or borrowed one. Must be a trans fantasy.

Happy to have trans identifying men or women in the mens toilets with me. Not sure what they expect in terms of support though, it's a toilet. We don't do eye contact in the mens, let alone an enthusiastic "Glad to see you in here!"

If someone kicks off at them while they're in there then obviously I'll stick up for them

This is covered in the SC ruling. Transmen can be excluded from female spaces if they are perceived to be male even if they are female. This is why it is important for organisations to have a unisex option. It seems unfair to those who have made such alterations to their bodies but realistically if the law had been made clear from the start then they would have been made aware at transitioning that things were going to be difficult. If they have no access then they can take the organisation to tribunal. However, realistically this cannot override single sex exceptions and create a situation where some people of one sex are allowed to use the facilities of another because of how they pass.

Doesn’t this open up the opportunity for a biological man, with devious intent, to enter a female toilet and, if challenged, claim to be trans?

A man could previously have pretended to be a transman without a GRC, and the ruling hasn't changed that.

The ruling says transmen who pass can be legally excluded from women-only spaces.