Men in female only spaces

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breach_of_the_peace

In practical terms, I think the ruling will allow women to challenge men in women's spaces. Either directly, if the woman has the confidence to do so, or indirectly, say in an employment situation. It's going to take a while, but the law is on the side of women who want only women in women's spaces! I think women who don't want men in their spaces (me included) need to protest whenever it happens - to whoever is responsible for those spaces.

Well the university I work for has sent round an email today saying they know the ruling is upsetting for trans staff and students and that the trans policy (which openly states it makes single sex spaces into mixed sex spaces) remains.

Not a word about the needs or concerns of women

Agree Aston It's really pissing me off that nearly all the media coverage on this has been of the 'Poor little vulnerable menz, don't you feel guilty, horrible women, what are you going to do to fix it' variety. No mention of what women and girls have had to put up with for the last 10 years (unlawfully)

I really hate the way the word "unsafe" gets trotted out to mean "made me feel sad'.

It's just another manipulation to make people think the poor loves are in fear of actual violence. It shores up the bs claim about all the beatings they are supposedly subjected to.

I saw a TW post on SM about feeling unsafe this week and I just thought "oh fuck off' you're a 6ft male, you don't know the meaning of the word"

It's DARVO.

I think in workplaces a man using the womens loos/changing rooms could be spoken to by HR, official warning etc. The employer may have to provide proper gender neutral facilities if they haven't got them already so can offer an alternative to the mens loos if those are just too non affirming "unsafe" .

When TIMs were using women’s toilets, if we gave them a dirty look we were bigots and could be challenged. M
Now it’s been clarified that if we give them a dirty look we aren’t automatically in the wrong.

They can no longer claim to be welcome when they were merely tolerated for fear of being called out.

I don’t think the ruling will have any effect really on public toilets. Trans-women will still use them because who is going to police it?

I’m not sure how it will play out when it comes to toilets being used in private premises, for example workplaces, shops, restaurants, cinemas etc. I think trans-women will still use the female toilet and I don’t think the staff will do much about it. They won’t want the confrontation.

The ruling will obviously make things better in terms of keeping men out of women’s sports and women’s prisons and female hospital wards for example as that can be enforced.

I don’t think trans-women will accept the ruling that states they must use female toilets. They won’t roll over that easily I fear.

I think a very loud and aggressive pushback is coming our way…

They could have done that from the start. So I expect what will happen is it'll go back to how it was.

It's the beginning of another culture shift. It used to be that men didn't feel like they could just go into women's spaces without consequence, then they found a loophole, now we're shifting back to when they couldnt get away with it easily.
As others have said, there are going to be more court cases, more clashes, more pushing back on both sides but the tide has turned hard towards women.
It's a long way from settled but we are gaining momentum. The lunacy was never going to be sustainable, not the moment it burst into general public awareness.

The ruling has been made. Unfortunately though WE have to enforce it. If I'm faced by a man in a wospace I'll think about telling him to ---- himself, but this is where safety in numbers comes in: if there are 2 or more of us, then out he will go!!
Seriously I don't think many men will risk breaking the law by looking like perverts.

It would reasonably lead to women in the toilets fearing harm.

We vote with our feet.

Just like I've not set foot in M&S (not even for my traditional Christmas treat shop) since they admitted to having mixed changing rooms etc.

If a facility says it has single sex provisions, but doesn't enforce that, we complain, then we leave and make sure everyone knows that's the case that they are breaking the law by lying about their facilities.

No, it's not illegal and never has been but as far as I am aware it does depend where the toilets are and why the man is there.

If they are in the workplace, employers have to provide single sex provision and can enforce that through their workplace policies.

If they are in private facilities with public access, such as a theatre or gym, the owners of the facility can choose whether or not to allow men into female only toilets but if they do they must not be labelled as 'women's' because they would be mixed sex.

If they are public toilets men can enter the those marked 'women' and it's not an offence unless they do actually commit (or intend to commit) an offence in there. However, it is socially unacceptable.

How is it a breach of the peace?

This seems to only apply to employees, not customers.

Sorry Jelly, misread your post here as signs being forcibly removed and not the organisation just unisexing everything.

Interesting question. At the moment they could be charged with breach of the peace at the least. I wonder what else?

Perhaps government will bring in a new law? Perhaps we will have to fight for one.

They can't. I've just received a information pack on toilets from Let Women Speak. Hope link works.

https://letwomenspeak.org/so/46PPdPkh0?languageTag=en&cid=81f274da-58e8-4ef6-92b9-9b43d9210b6a

Is there a specific law about men or transgender women entering the toilets marked women?

We should probably think of it like speed limits.

Just as you can't prevent every instance of speeding, realistically you're not going to be able to prevent every single trans woman from using a toilet everywhere. But the law is there - and it should at least discourage the exhibitionists.

I'm alert to the dangers of creating martyrs - making a public complaint about an elderly and appropriately dressed transwoman in a busy railway station might not actually be all that helpful. There's nothing wrong in making a judgement call on the actual circumstances around you.

There's a lot of bravado at the moment about how some men intend to continue to trample on women's rights but in practice I think many would be too cowardly now that women know they can complain. All we need to do is make sure that we do complain when/if necessary.

I agree with this.

Court cases. Lots and lots and lots of court cases.

We just keep going to court.

Until rape crisis organisations accept that female rape survivors deserve help and support which is not conditional on pretending to believe that a man is a woman.

Until employers accept that failing to provide appropriate single sex toilets and changing facilities for their staff and enforcing the single sex nature of those facilities is not going to fly.

Until women have stopped being discriminated against for saying that 2+2=4.

Until theatres have been told that renaming their toilets "cubicles" and "cubicles and urinals" is indirect discrimination against women.

Until there are no longer any male prisoners in the female prison estate or male patients on female only wards.

In reality I think there will be more mixed sex toilet facilities in places where usage can't be effectively policed. But if the "trans women shouldn't be in women's toilets" message gets through at a societal level, I think that organisations which are in a position to provide additional mixed sex facilities alongside single sex ones will find that all but the most obnoxious trans people use them.

And we stickered.

Did us no good really, and people got arrested. And we were acting within the law.

It's also going to be the case that the more antisocial and anti women behaviour exhibited, the more the majority population will get really sick of all this. The comments in the newspapers aren't supportive.