Get the violins out - Stonewall is "in crisis"

Stonewall would not be the first charity to fold should that happen nor the last. In my view given the way its conducted itself over the last few years folding seems for the best.

Oh I see what you did there. Very nice!

Stonewall's "some people are gay, get over it" is/was brilliant - succinct, accurate, memorable and really just cut to the heart of the issue. They've tried to do the same thing with trans but it's a whole different beast that people will probably never be able to just "get over". It's too complicated.

Any good NGO or lobby group or charity should have making itself redundant as its top priority. That means the problem it was set up to address has at last been overcome- mission accomplished.

I'd say part of Stonewall's failure was that it didn't want to make itself redundant.

Instead it found a cynical way to artificially extend ts life, the consequences of which went on to harm the very people it was set up to help.

Nancy Kelly called lesbians sexual racists. That was the final nail in the coffin.

The other thing is that being trans is never going to work as some kind of training programme with certificates anyway. It's a personal matter. I hope we move way beyond the sexist, 50s/60s obsession with passing and medicalisation and legal status that the GRA represents.

I do feel for any organisation trying to navigate the crevasses in this situation. I don't think Stonewall is the one to do it. They were a provocative and demanding campaigning organisation, working at high levels to get publicity and legal change, which worked because there was already a consensus that the law was way behind public opinion. Clause 28 was shocking to most of us back then, it was the late 80s after all and it seemed like the dinosaur twitch of a dying body of opinion. Incredible that it took over a decade to get it repealed. They acted as if the GRA was the same, when in fact it was and remains quite far ahead of the public opinion curve. The old Stonewall would talk to anyone, appear with anyone, encompassed a big range of political voices, would take on hopeless legal cases for the publicity. The self protecting cats' bum mouth of modern campaigning (won't talk to you, you might contaminate me, ooh did you click on the wrong thing, go away, have you ticked the right boxes on this form, have a certificate) quite clearly achieves nothing. They're amazed that people will join forces with people they disagree with to achieve a common goal.

The funny thing is, I can see the need for a lobby group to represent trans people, and the early years of Stonewall would be a pretty good model for that. How Stonewall recruited beloved cultural figures to be their public face, distanced themselves from extremists who had given gay activism a terrible image, and concentrated on building good will.

Ben Summerskill was one of the most effective political operators I've ever seen, and a lot of that was his innate conservatism - Ben wouldn't take up a cause unless it (a) had overwhelming support in the community and (b) he judged that public opinion was ready for it.

I don't see any evidence that the trans community is in a place where it could support that kind of operation. The noisiest voices are the maddest voices, I can't see any moderates emerging, and the nearest we've got to a gauge of opinion in the community is the trans UK subreddit with its demands for cutted up pear.

I haven’t got time to list the amount of untrue statements in this hyperbolic, entitled, pile of shite.

I remember hearing Ruth Hunt talk about her background on a faith podcast, where she was speaking about Stonewall's pivot to trans. I suppose I'd been expecting strident dogma, but she wasn't like that at all, she was extremely impressive. She's a phenomenal communicator and always very conciliatory, and cognisant of others' perspectives. You couldn't imagine meeting her and not finding some common ground.

But the weird thing was that, when it came to describing the actual pivot, there was nothing there. The actual pivot process, the way she described it, was no more than having reached a point where Stonewall had achieved its LGB aims, and then talking to some T supporters and accepting 'okay, it's their turn now'.

There was no explanation as to why the issue was right or appropriate for Stonewall, and indeed there was no indication that she'd given the issue any thought at all. Normally you'd assume that there must have been some philosophical reason for such a change, but she was so open and reasonable about everything else that the absence of any sign of a core belief was really striking. Someone so capable couldn't possibly have missed an opportunity to put one forward; it would've been a moment's work to ground everything, had it occurred to her. It would have been so easy to do. But no, instead it was just a vacuum.

That conversation has haunted me ever since. It was like this nightmare mix of Blairism and Blade Runner/Terminator or something like that. An indestructible bot, furnished with empathy and compassion at levels advanced way beyond human capabilities, programmed to roam the earth in search of Third Ways to impose.

Why am I reminded of astrology sites that have a disclaimer saying THIS SERVICE IS PROVIDED FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY

How come they've got no money? They didn't spend millions in Goverment grant, donor and Corporate scheme income on sevices for the LGBTQ blah blah people. So where did it go?

Hahahahahaha - pause - hahaha haha

well cry me a fucking river! They have behaved utterly appallingly and even now show no remorse over what they have encouraged

of course we need a strong LGB charity & separately a charity for TQ ppl but the forced teaming of sexual orientation with gender identity needs to stop

stonewall need to take a long, very long hard, look at themselves!

From what I've seen only if the conversation is a grovelling apology and TWAW.

Stonelaw have ruined their own credibility which they’ve been warned about for years so it’s not a shock. It’s entirely self inflicted.

LGB Alliance will fill the space doing what it says on the tin. Meanwhile it is a shame for trans people but they will need to build up their own infrastructure. Every group has to.

Utter bullshit in that article about how LGB interests overlap with trans people’s interests.
Quite the opposite. Lesbian culture especially has been put under dire threat by men getting into women’s spaces and all kinds of idiots generally inciting aggressive rhetoric about ‘sex separatists’ or ‘sexual racists’

Big picture : there's no coming back from wilfully misinterpreting the law to "the most vulnerable" minority in society.

Just like the politicians, Stonewall needs to come clean and develop underlyng ethics (otherwise known as a backbone) or clear rules on what it stands for (potentially common sense).

Realise lgb and t actually conflict, develop a separate charity where the T can work out how it fits in rather than trying to bulldoze its way in (or even work out what it actually is).

Baby steps.

Then money will come flowing back in.

Stonewall morphed into a completely different organisation that has failed to achieve anything constructive in its transformed state. It needs to go.

Trans people are a very diverse group and it is difficult to imagine how a single organisation/charity could represent the different interests effectively.

The young trans people that I work with are not represented or supported by current TRA organisations and self advocates. However, it’s difficult to see how a new, moderate organisation, who could actually help, will ever be able to establish itself, as the baying mob of extremists will call them transphobes!

What @PerkyBlinder wrote.

Stonewall used to be fantastic. Now they’re actively homophobic & especially anti-lesbian. The sooner they sink the better.

All grift must come to an end eventually. They had an extraordinarily good run, taking large sums from virtue signalling corporates and public bodies. But they overdid it with “Stonewall law” and now here we are.

Stonwall et al achieved significant results after gay marriage was legalised and the trans grift was the next money spinner.

This has been like a rug pulled out from underneath them.

Pride before a fall, literally.

That is amazing! Not so ahead of the law now are they?

hilarious! 😆

My violin is washing its hair. For the foreseeable future.

So they want a conversation now, do they?

I appreciate what Stonewall has achieved, good for them. But they've reached a point of stagnation now. Most gay and lesbian folk of my acquaintance say Stonewall doesn't represent them. Maybe Stonewall was useful in a specific time in history, but is now an anachronism? Or maybe they should just rebrand as a TQIA+ charity?