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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

"protect the dolls" - what is this?

117 replies

Brefugee · 23/04/2025 20:37

as the thread title says. I have seen this a few times now, but am none the wiser.

OP posts:
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Namechange7598 · 24/04/2025 10:47

Definitely not Cockney rhyming slang! Doll meaning woman is probably linked to the short form on Dorothy - Dolly - and was popular slang in the 1950s in America as in the musical Guys and Dolls. I didn’t know that it was co-opted by men in the 1980s to describe ultra feminine TIMs.

dottydodah · 24/04/2025 10:43

I instantly thought of the novel "Valley of the dolls"1960s book by jacqueline Susann"! About models having a hard time in the US

Beamur · 24/04/2025 10:39

Pedro Pascal is a very well known actor. I don't think he's doing this to inflate his own profile. Was in Wonderwoman, Gladiator 2, the Last of Us...guess he's not angling for a Harry Potter reboot role anytime soon.

Hoppinggreen · 24/04/2025 10:38

If anyone had any doubts about how deeply misogynistic and creepy the whole TW movement is then this campaign should dispel them pretty quickly.

nauticant · 24/04/2025 10:37

The Uncanny Valley of the Dolls.

ArabellaScott · 24/04/2025 10:35

Also just noting the infantilisation aspect of 'doll'.

thestudio · 24/04/2025 10:32

Doll is a generic term for 'girl' in lots of parts of the UK and Ireland
And then upon that is layered the heavy signifiers of sexualised femininity that dolls traditionally have (no doll looks like a boring middle aged woman as we know).
It's an ironic reclaiming of the GC critique that TW are performing femininity.
They celebrate that fact, even though it disrupts (at best) their assertion that gender is innate.
And then a 'playful' (postmodernity loves playfulness) linguistic link is layered on top, between for eg bears (bearded, heavyset gay men) - you might have seen the 'bears for dolls' placard - or pulling in 'boys' who are, in heteronormative culture, not supposed to play with toys which exist precisely as instruction manuals for the performance of femininity.

And once again, for this to work, they have to pretend they don't know that feminism first made this analysis.

WomensSports · 24/04/2025 10:27

I've never heard of this random T-shirt bloke until today. If I was cynical (which I am) I'd say he's jumping on the bandwagon to advance his own profile by exploiting his brother's MH struggles.

Brefugee · 24/04/2025 10:27

TBH I'm fine if they all start calling themselves dolls. I know that word is taken but dolls are inanimate so they probably won't fight back. And we all know a doll is artificial so good there, and we can have 'woman' back.

win-win

OP posts:
Ohyoudodoyou · 24/04/2025 10:24

I saw a much older fella (who should know this is outmoded language to describe women) putting this all over his social media page. It seems an odd thing to write if you constantly say you’re also a woman’s rights supporter, which he claims to be on international women’s day. So - one day a year.

We women love to be referred to as ‘dolls’, don’t we?

JeremiahBullfrog · 24/04/2025 10:24

I would have liked to have been in the meeting where this slogan was adopted. "These people are saying we don't respect women! What word can we use to dispell that notion?"

DialSquare · 24/04/2025 10:21

He’s just called JKR a 'heinous loser' and also called for a Harry Potter boycott. Good luck with that!

themightysossidge · 24/04/2025 10:17

TheCatsTongue · 23/04/2025 20:52

His brother is now a trans woman, that's why he keeps going on about it.

Ah ! That explains it.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/04/2025 10:15

ArabellaScott · 24/04/2025 09:11

It's actually quite apt for a group of men who see women as a fetishised, hyperfeminised state of objecthood.

Gives me 'expectant arsehole and blank, blank eyes' vibes.

This.

FuriousAndFrustrated · 24/04/2025 09:28

One of the pubs I follow on Facebook has done the usual fawning post:

"we stand with our trans community—today and every day. In light of the UK Supreme Court ruling, we reaffirm our commitment to being a safe, welcoming space for all queer folks. Your identity is valid. You belong here."

They used a picture of this "Protect The Dolls" slogan and I didn't have a clue what they meant. I asked but didn't get a response.

My guess would have been something along the lines of "might look pretty, but is empty headed and doesn't have the right bits down below" :-)

Cedrabbage · 24/04/2025 09:16

I actually like the term to describe a subset of men, seems fitting if they're people who really like to get plastic surgery and dress up in a Barbie doll type way. But do they not want to protect anyone else? Seems a bit niche.

ArabellaScott · 24/04/2025 09:11

It's actually quite apt for a group of men who see women as a fetishised, hyperfeminised state of objecthood.

Gives me 'expectant arsehole and blank, blank eyes' vibes.

ArabellaScott · 24/04/2025 09:08

ArtemisiaTheArtist · 23/04/2025 20:56

In South London Cockney slang an attractive woman is a "sausage". Sausage= sausage roll = doll.

Mildly sexist but there you go.

But ... but .. it doesn't rhyme!

SloppyThePoodle · 24/04/2025 08:58

If they were actually women they'd know we don't want to be referred to by outdated sexist terms like that. Why do they fetishise it so much? It's so creepy.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/04/2025 08:50

It’s not “endearing” to me. I find dolls creepy.

LuckyAzureBird · 23/04/2025 22:47

SnoopyPajamas · 23/04/2025 22:41

I thought this was drag queen speak for "protect trans women". I've seen it a few times recently, all after the Supreme Court ruling, and I assumed that was what it meant.

The wikipedia article linked about says it is linked to 80s ballroom culture so that tracks. From the washington post article about this:

And there is the phrase itself: “the dolls.” It’s a term for trans women that is ubiquitous in some LGBTQ+ circles but not fully known by the mainstream (yet).
“It was familiar, and it was a way that I would talk with my friends, even if there wasn’t a political statement behind it,” Ives said. “It felt quite to the point.”
Calling someone a “doll” is endearing. It implies familiarity, deep affection, a sense of attachment and protection.
Could it also imply a fixation on physical appearance? Or plasticity? Or collectibility?
“I want to have those conversations,” Ives said. “I think that’s really up to the interpreter to decide.”

archive.is/ownV8

SnoopyPajamas · 23/04/2025 22:45

TheCatsTongue · 23/04/2025 20:52

His brother is now a trans woman, that's why he keeps going on about it.

I wondered why he'd gone full Will Ferrell recently. That explains it

SnoopyPajamas · 23/04/2025 22:43

Brefugee · 23/04/2025 20:40

oh thanks. I had wondered by JKR had some creepy dolls as her Twix background

Does she? That's brilliant 😂

SnoopyPajamas · 23/04/2025 22:42

I've never felt any of the men using this phrase were talking about women. I assumed it was TW-specific. Is it supposed to be inclusive?

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