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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Confused about trans men or men posing as…

55 replies

TheQuickRobin · 23/04/2025 09:56

Ok first off please be kind to me, as this is likely something others have considered and I am asking from genuine curiosity, not to try and make a point.

With the judgement on what is a woman, I like most people I know thought, oh well, that seems pretty common sense really. I don’t know any trans people and it’s not an issue that’s ever impacted me personally. I understand the arguments about women’s only spaces etc.

The only women’s only space I really use is a communal changing room in the gym. I wouldn’t like it if a man walked in claiming he ‘identified as’ a woman and used that as an excuse to bother me or others whilst we were showering. I get that. I also understand that there are trans women who have transitioned and look for all intents and purposes as female and that those people should now find another space to get changed i guess (?) as the female changing space should be female only. I’m tracking this so far.

Where I get lost is trans men, ie: born as women, now identify as men. Many have hairy beards, and identify as straight, ie: fancy women. Now as they were born women, does this mean they have as much right to the ladies changing room as me? Because I’m not sure how I feel about that. And ironically would this increase cover for creepy cis-men who want to go leer at ladies in the shower as they can just lie and claim to be trans men who were born female. In other words, would it actually make it easier for bad men to access female spaces as it’s harder to check? Ie: if a big beardy fella comes into the changing rooms and claims he identifies as female, i’d hope common sense would preside and we’d all kick him out. But if same beardy fella comes in and says he was born female… what then 🤯

OP posts:
Hoppinggreen · 23/04/2025 10:41

TheQuickRobin · 23/04/2025 10:04

I don’t think all men are toxic. I think a small number of them are. And it’s concern about predatory behaviour from some men and other concerns around equality legislation which led to the legal proceedings resulting in the judgement.

I’m not putting forward an opinion, asking for others views.

My view
The word "cis" is offensive and unecessary
TM are women, they look like women
Be Kind is how we ended up in the ridiculous situation that needed a High Court to clarify basic Biology

JellySaurus · 23/04/2025 10:39

I don't ever want to be in a position where I've asked what turns out to be a trans-id female to leave the changing rooms. I would really like to think that I can tell that a very butch or masculine-presenting lesbian woman IS a woman! But I'm horrified at the prospect of getting something wrong and upsetting another woman.

I strongly disagree with the importance you place on this. It is part of the Be Kind feminine socialisation that turns women into service humans.

I'm a tall, broad-built woman. When I had cropped hair and wore bomber jackets and jeans I was often addressed as 'Sir' from behind, and challenged in the women's toilets. The moment I turned around or spoke, my challenger immediately recognised that I am female and apologised. No harm done. No offence taken. I'd much rather be challenged in the women's toilets than allow men to colonise them through women's fear of giving offence. And I said so to any women who felt embarrassed at having challenged me.

GlomOfNit · 23/04/2025 10:13

I also find this a conundrum because of COURSE 'trans men' are ok in the women's loos and other facilities, they are female! And I can't imagine being intimidated by them. However, while I can always spot a TIM a mile off, however young and dewy, I genuinely can find it much harder to 'tell' if a woman has transitioned via lots of testosterone and cosmetic surgery/binders and are passing as men - I think some trans-id females carry this off very successfully, and (concern for vulnerable young, often autistic, often same-sex attracted girls aside) good luck to them if that is what makes them more content. I find photos harder to 'read' the sex than meeting a person in RL, but even then I've been mistaken (meeting an acquaintance's daughter who had come back from university presenting fairly convincingly as a bloke, for example).

I don't ever want to be in a position where I've asked what turns out to be a trans-id female to leave the changing rooms. I would really like to think that I can tell that a very butch or masculine-presenting lesbian woman IS a woman! But I'm horrified at the prospect of getting something wrong and upsetting another woman.

I think we are so much less likely to encounter a slight, bearded trans woman in the women's facilities though. I think the trans women who push themselves into our spaces tend towards the caricatured, often pornified stereotypes of 'femininity' that they clearly get turned on by. I think it's far less likely that a bio male who hadn't done anything about, eg, his beard, would come into the loos and say, I'm female.

(I know there's a potential risk that a totally non-trans, predatory man might try his luck and try to pretend to be a trans man - but honestly I think that's getting a bit TOO paranoid!)

TheQuickRobin · 23/04/2025 10:04

fruitbrewhaha · 23/04/2025 10:00

Well a trans man wouldn’t be “big” and beardy. They are small with beards because they are women taking testosterone.

Perhaps we need to work out why men are so toxic?

I don’t think all men are toxic. I think a small number of them are. And it’s concern about predatory behaviour from some men and other concerns around equality legislation which led to the legal proceedings resulting in the judgement.

I’m not putting forward an opinion, asking for others views.

OP posts:
fruitbrewhaha · 23/04/2025 10:00

Well a trans man wouldn’t be “big” and beardy. They are small with beards because they are women taking testosterone.

Perhaps we need to work out why men are so toxic?