Keir Starmer "adult female" niggle or am I nitpicking?

That'll be it. AHF is not just a factual description it's a slogan and he was probably avoiding it for that reason. I don't think we need fear he's deliberately leaving a loop hole to allow cows sows, does, pens and vixens to don frocks and wigs and insist on using the ladies.

I love how the likes of Starmer keep saying "let's be clear" as he proceeds to muddy the waters, hide problems with slight of hand, and play "look at this, not at that". 100% from politicians playbook.

Never heard that, but it would definitely explain a lot if that is the case, and tbh his family is exactly the demographic that would fall for this social contagion

Never forget he is a lawyer first and a politician second, legal minds will use whatever argument will sway the jury regardless of what they personally believe or generally know to be true.

Old school Lefty bloke misogynist. I rest my case.

They're all Tony Blair clones and it was one of his, or rather Campbell's, pet phrases.

Dishonest, amoral, warmongering, pleb-despising Blair clones.

Conceived as a female/male.

Sex actualised at conception.

What is it with politicians and the word 'clear'? I think their favourite phrase is 'Let's be absolutely clear'.

I have never trusted Starmer and he's said and done nothing as PM to cause me to revise my opinion. You're not nitpicking, he knows the value of words, it was a deliberate omission.

But of course, TRA’s make the claim that they are biological females too so perhaps it is nitpicking!

Wasn’t starmer’s previously position that TWAW because they had a GRC? So I can see why people would want him to say ‘biological’ to underline that he knows it’s material reality sex and not piece of paper sex.

I'd say that "adult human female" carries a certain connotation at the moment. It's very much a slogan of our side of the debate. People sell T-shirts with it on.

So to avoid parroting a slogan, he's left out the one word of it that he can. Every one knows we're talking about humans here. Even if someone comes out with "Well, ackshually, adult female flamingo's aren't women", people are just going to look at them like they're stupid.

Politicians have to walk a line. Even if he really believed and wanted to say "Look, being trans is just a mental illness, gender is a fiction, it's all a load of bollocks", he couldn't say it. Not if he wanted to keep his job and get all the other stuff he wants to do done.

He's been very much on the wrong side of the line up till now, and most of us on this board probably still wish the new fence he's chosen was a bit further on our side of the garden, I can't really fault him for not actually using the phrase "Adult Human Female"

He left out human, it's pretty much the one term everyone agrees on. (Side-eyes the furries)

Act already says that a woman is a female of any age. The wording chosen suggests that whoever wrote it either doesn't understand the ruling or, worse, is hoping to achieve some political effect by appearing to say 'TWAM, so yah boo sucks!'

Whom is that supposed to please? Not me, because women's rights not centred, like always.

Ruling is not relevant to TWAW, which is an (untrue) scientific or (unfalsifiable) metaphysical statement.

Ruling says TW must not be treated by the EA as if they AW. Or, if you prefer, that male and female refer to biological sex.

Best way to spin it? I might have gone with 'I welcome this ruling about the sex-based rights enshrined in the EA. This important law ensures that men and women are treated fairly with respect to one another, taking into account their biological differences, and the ruling has confirmed that it must be applied - and should always have been applied - on the basis of biological sex ie birth sex' (bound to be some nitwits who think TW change biological sex)

‘Certified female’ is nonsensical. If people are using it they should stop it.

Isn’t a potential antonym of a biological female a ‘certified’ female? In which case, biological would be clearer that it didn’t refer to GRC holders etc

YABU. Honestly, I don't think he's particularly bothered: he wants to make sure he's following the legal advice. End of.

I’d say it was an uncharitable interpretation. But then I don’t think he deserves any charity.

Isn’t Adult Human Female considered a dog whistle by TRAs? I’d assumed that he was desperately trying to avoid looking as if he’d been influenced by our side.

I think it’s nitpicking. He was answering in the context of laws clearly applicable only to humans.

Some have complained he didn’t say ‘biological female’ - well, that’s tautological, ‘female’ is a biological term. Using ‘biological female’ implies there’s some other sort …er well it’s pretty clear we’re not talking about electrical connections so no, there isn’t.

adult female is fine.

I think KS has a child who identifies as trans so he has to be extremely careful what he says…..

It's the subject of the entire thread.

I'm really feeling very puzzled about the number of threads analysing what Keir Starmer says.

I had no regard for Boris Johnson at all but if he'd committed to protecting women's rights I think I would have been.....pleased? Of course he would have been doing it for entirely cynical reasons but that's a lot less important than it getting done.

Is it even necessary to have the word adult. Girls are also female and also entitled to single sex spaces.

I see what you’re getting at OP, which is precisely why I clarified that I meant “implied” in the context of legislation that only affects humans, not in terms of obscuring everyday language to mean something else.

I get your point about bad faith arguments, but I think that pressing KS to clarify that he means “human” females seems like stooping to the level of those acting in bad faith (as the “human” isn’t really a contentious issue here, it’s merely a scientific definition to differentiate us from other species) when he should really be pressed on things like what he’s going do about MPs criticising Baroness Falkner and the SC, the threats against women and criminal damage at the protests, the GMC continuing to conceal doctors’ biological sex, companies stating they’ll defy the law, apologising to Rosie Duffield, women’s groups and others (both within his own party and outside it) whom he’s condemned for speaking the truth, and so on.