Girl Guides and the SC judgement

Surely this policy is illegal unless they make public they are mixed sex? Always has been but ignorance of the law is no defence and they can hardly claim they have missed the very public clarification of the law!

They seem to be holding fast for now.

https://x.com/JamesEsses/status/1915689045356654904?t=179DMWzUaA5GgvQ-YdSpMw&s=19

A whistleblower from @Girlguiding has been in touch.

Volunteers have been instructed that, irrespective of the Supreme Court judgement, boys who identify as girls can use female camp rooms and toilets. Worse still, parents must not be told.

This is a safeguarding nightmare.

I just contacted them. I so want them to get over this madness so my daughters can join.

As a girlguiding leader, please email HQ about this and not your daughters unit leaders. HQ don't listen to us and it will be far better coming from parents directly.

HQ are not fast at updating any policy so I can't imagine it will be done soon. There's also the adding complication of the CEO having resigned and recruitment for a new one underway, and I imagine whoever is acting as interim has not welcomed having this rugby pass sent their way.

Back when scouts went mixed sex, girlguiding overwhelming voted to stay single sex for the young members. I hope this ruling doesn't lead to us becoming a mixed sex org like the scouts as I believe it to be vitally important for girls to have their own spaces and in theory, this ruling should make it easier (I think? Not being an expert!)

Scouts will also need to consider their policies as well. Although they are mixed sex, the website does say that trans scouts can use the toilets / showers they feel most comfortable with (whilst also encouraging third and gender neutral spaces). I'm sure they will be grappling with this too.

Just to address some misconceptions though, male volunteers have long been permitted in girlguiding. We've had some great single dads volunteer with us over the years. But they cannot make the promise (so they can only be unit helpers rather than "leaders") and are not members of the organisation - they have a separate name (which escapes me right now). Obviously separate toilet / shower / bedroom provision has to be made for them on camp / overnights.

I also found this afterwards, saying they have improved their current policies a lot vs the previous version, though still not ideal: https://www.transgendertrend.com/scout-association-new-transgender-guidance-big-step-forward/

Scouts will also need to review their policies I reckon. From memory I think they may not be QUITE as extreme/gaslighty as the Guides' ones, but I'm sure they also have some dodgy bits, and they've certainly had male leaders who "identify" as women (one of whom has been in both Scouts and Guides!).
One difference I think is that they don't seem to have been quite as determined to impose GI on all their units/leaders and to silence concerns as the Guides. So while some units have lapped up all the nonsensical pronoun games etc from HQ, been involved with Pride, etc (& there are a few VERY dodgy/captured troops I've read about), many/most? have ignored it and continued to follow sensible safeguarding practices and run essentially as they used to before, without getting any bother. The worry is what is being allowed to happen in those other units, where the leaders are themselves genderists or trans-identified. Presumably they will NOT necessarily be applying the same principles, and I do worry about their safeguarding and the messages they're giving the kids...

This was my peak moment too and I mentioned it to a Tory minister (as was) and one of their staff a few years ago. I have always hoped that helped in a tiny way with the conversations around this. I was also keen to see GG’s response to the ruling, shame there is so far not even a holding statement.

I think being allowed to continue until end of current unit is too long. That could be ?4? years that the whole troop is impacted.

Any adult leaders who should be female but aren't should again be removed at the end of the summer term. Allows for a smoother transition but means September can start with a clean slate.

The Scouts have admitted girls for many years, have they found a solution?

It's not just the problem of boys attending GG, it's also the issue of men identifying as women and becoming Guide Leaders.

Aside from the safeguarding aspect, I can't imagine how much it's messed with so many girls heads for so many years to be confronted with that lie and have to play along.

If GG goes openly mixed sex, will girls still be forced to validate these men?

Or they continue on until they finish their current unit (guides/brownies) but arent able to go on camps, must have segregated changing/toilets and arent permitted to train as leaders. ‘Thats a bit less brutal? What will they do about the trans women leaders?

Surely every organisation affected can immediately update their site with a simple holding statement. I would be worried if this was not done as surely it reflects badly on them.

If they decide to go mixed sex rather than girls only, it will be final confirmation that they would rather throw girls under a bus than place their needs above boys feelings.

I am involved in the scouts and nearly all the girls drop out as they progress through senior school age. When they are asked why they are leaving, it’s because they don’t like being around all the boys.

If guides become another scouts, they will risk this happening. Our Scouts is massively over subscribed with long waiting lists, so I am sure plenty of parents of boys would place them in the local guides if that went mixed sex.

It was GG that first piqued my interest too.

They will I hope be taking advice and then changing approach.

They will need to decide what to do about any transgirls they have misguidedly let in. A sensible approach may be to let them continue to the summer but not return in September, and no away camps in-between.

Absolutely this. We all need to be writing to our political representatives, and any relevant Organisations we have connections to, asking them to say how they implementing the SC ruling.

Even if they go for option 2 and become mixed sex (officially), will they still be able to let someone share sleeping accomodation with the opposite sex?

Reminder of Fae’s involvement

I left Guiding over this after many years as a Guider
There was no way I was taking girls to camp when they might have to share a tent with males and I couldn’t even warn their parents

I couldn’t believe it when I was told this

Also objected to the amount of money,from the subscriptions , that they spent on court cases

Girl Guides needs to be girl guides not Boy Scouts.

I’ve emailed them as a parent of a guide. They will no doubt be consulting with their legal team right now and they seem to have two options.

1. return to being girl only
2. move to become a fully mixed sex org such as scouts

My email asked them to please go for option 1. I suspect though, that they might run a consultation so that the decision is seen to be taken out of their hands.

GG were one of the first orgs that I corresponded with about this many years ago and they were absolutely barking about the whole thing. I remember that they told me that they couldn’t risk assess boys in shared sleeping accommodation as they said it was against the Equality Act. They were extremely captured and took advice on their policies from extreme porn advocate Jane Fae. They’re going to find it very hard to forcibly eject any boys that they have allowed to join. And to be fair, that is a really awful situation to be in. It’s a real shame that they orchestrated it.

Anyone know more about this???

Have you emailed them through their website?

Interesting the differences isn't it?

Surrey university get fined £585k or similar - immediately policies come off websites or holding messages are added.

Supreme Court ruling saying what the law has always been and a bunch of people come out saying that they will flout it and angry men pee on statues in parliament square.

The EHRC need to slap a massive fine on NHS Fife over the missing EqIAs revealed via the Peggie case. That would get them moving!?

The guidance will take time to come out, and be applied. The issue for every provider though will be that they're now wide open to court cases.