Some strange contradictory arguments from the TRA side

To me, if you've had the op and no longer have a nob then I don't care if you're in the toilets or changing rooms.

I know people won't like this but least having the op shows me that you are wanting to be a woman by taking it seriously.

Don't give me this crap about someone who has a penis can tell me they are a woman. When I was growing up, people who identified as women got the ops to reflect the outside to match their inside. I actually felt sorry for them.

What I don't want is people with their nobs out in like changing rooms and stuff. Tbf I wouldn't want to see a women's box out either but I definitely don't want a nob in a woman's space.

I will definitely accept you more if you have the op.

I still don't believe biological males should be allowed to compete in female sports though due to accumulation of male strength and build plus previous hormones. Anywhere else I don't care about.

Oh I totally stand corrected - it was some other enormous PhD waver who was also taunting us ignoramouses!

As y’all were.

I'm getting VERY confused by all the PhDs being dropped all over the place.

"Gender ideology is built on a pack of lies and circular arguments."
- Circumfrences

I'm always baffled that a truly concerning number of people still think that xx to equal a woman and xy to equal a man is an exclusive default, and then go on to to erroneously cling to it as though it were scientific fact.

I don't know your educational background, but at my school we learned about intersex and chromosomal variation not being tied exclusively to pubescent development in Biology when we were around 14. It was pretty fundamental science, to be honest.

So, when you - and others like you - make statements like this I have to ask... how basic is your science, exactly?

"Claim 2: That there is no use banning self-identified TW from the ladies' on the basis they might represent a risk, because genuinely dangerous males won't care whether they're allowed in or not."
- Transdimensional

It's true that dangerous males will do precisely that, but the logical fallacy that this means women who were born as physical - physical, not biological (see intersex and chromosomal variation) - males will automatically present a risk.

As you rightly assert, dangerous men are not going to be deterred by a door bearing a sign of a person in a dress, but let's forego the bathroom entirely. If men intend to be predatory they need not use a woman's bathroom; they simply get a job in law enforcement, or work as a youth volunteer at a local church, or be your boss.

Let's be quite clear. This HC ruling has absolutely nothing to do with protecting women; you allowed yourselves to be led by bigots into alienating and scapegoating a vulnerable minority group who have done nothing to you and whose suffering you have neither the inclination or education to understand.

Claim: TW have been using women's toilets since forever and women have never noticed because TW pass so well and 100% look like women, no woman in the women's toilets has ever batted an eyelid at a TW being there.

After the ruling: TW are going to be hounded out of women's toilets if they try to enter

Questions: If TW pass so well that no one has ever noticed before, why wouldn't they continue to do so? What's changed? If TW were so convincing presenting as women before last Wednesday, why aren't they just as convincing now? Why are TW suddenly going to get hounded out if they pass as well as they think they always did? Why all the panic and hand wringing?

TRSOH see disobedient MNers as hysterical foolish old hags who only know about nappies, handbags and laundry.

We don't know if someone male still has a penis and it would be appallingly invasive and dehumanising to ask. Therefore, anyone male must be presumed to still have his penis and treated accordingly. This is the only option that protects women's safety and trans people's medical privacy.

To me, if you've had the op and no longer have a nob then I don't care if you're in the toilets or changing rooms.

I know people won't like this but least having the op shows me that you are wanting to be a woman by taking it seriously.

Don't give me this crap about someone who has a penis can tell me they are a woman. When I was growing up, people who identified as women got the ops to reflect the outside to match their inside. I actually felt sorry for them.

What I don't want is people with their nobs out in like changing rooms and stuff. Tbf I wouldn't want to see a women's box out either but I definitely don't want a nob in a woman's space.

I will definitely accept you more if you have the op.

I still don't believe biological males should be allowed to compete in female sports though due to accumulation of male strength and build plus previous hormones. Anywhere else I don't care about.

I don't think @BezMills was replying to you, but to the multi-thread word-salad-tosser.

We don't need to counter-protest about the SC ruling. FWS won, end of story.

Claim 1: That it's unfair for TW to go in men's toilets because they're less safe there.

We've been told a million times by trans activists that who uses what toilet isn't important - that we all have gender-neutral toilets at home. So if it's of so little consequence, why can't they use the men's toilets?

To address your first point. People making this argument seem to not know, or ignore, what sex means, what it refers to. It refers to the individuals role in sexual reproduction. There are only two sexes involved in sexual reproduction, male and female. So there are only two sexes. Sex is binary. There is only one primary sex characteristic. Gametes ( sperm and egg). That’s what determines sex. Everything else is a secondary sex characteristic. People who are intersex have disorders of the male or female sex ( sexed by their primary sex characteristic), which manifests in disorders of development of their secondary sex characteristics. Pointing to intersex to say sex is not binary makes no more sense than pointing to blind people to say humans are not a sighted species.

To your second point. ‘Women, men will hurt you anyway, stop trying to make it harder for them’ is an argument underpinned by appalling misogyny. Removing safeguarding clearly leads to more harm being caused. All of the women harmed by the loss of sex segregated spaces, would not have suffered those attacks if sex segregated spaces had been maintained. I can’t persuade you to care about assaulted women, but nor can you persuade me not to care.

@Sassysoonwins trans Reddit is truly a sight to behold. They simultaneously want entry into womens spaces but don't seem to realise the purpose of those spaces (other than as a backdrop for them to exist in).

They want us to be kind and also want no debate and then believe that kindness and lack of debate equates to public opinion being in their favour. I saw someone say that they believed public opinion 100:1 favoured TRAs because of how many TRAs protested the SC ruling and how few GC people were there in opposition?!

To me, if you've had the op and no longer have a nob then I don't care if you're in the toilets or changing rooms.

I know people won't like this but least having the op shows me that you are wanting to be a woman by taking it seriously.

Don't give me this crap about someone who has a penis can tell me they are a woman. When I was growing up, people who identified as women got the ops to reflect the outside to match their inside. I actually felt sorry for them.

What I don't want is people with their nobs out in like changing rooms and stuff. Tbf I wouldn't want to see a women's box out either but I definitely don't want a nob in a woman's space.

I will definitely accept you more if you have the op.

I still don't believe biological males should be allowed to compete in female sports though due to accumulation of male strength and build plus previous hormones. Anywhere else I don't care about.

Joking aside that is actually a good point about "passing"
My dog knows what sex someone is, even from a distance (prefers women)