Christine Jardine MP: Ensure rights that trans people have freely used for decades are not overturned

Well, I wish you lots of luck with that. I hope you are able to get the peeps on Reddit to accept the result of the Supreme Court ruling with good grace, and I will await your successful report that they are all going to follow the law as it has been clarified.

I see the board has been visited by another intellectual colossus insisting that women STFU.

Whatever happened to "No debate"?

Any issue of genuine or perceived unfairness could only be explored and addressed with reasoned debate. Which would obviously be a very sensible thing to do.

Extreme folks on both sides of the argument are drowning out more reasoned and more nuanced discussions.

It is obvious that clarity and resolution is needed given the current febrile debates.

Transwomen want to have more rights than any of us. They have the rights and privileges of being male, the rights under the GRA and EqA of gender reassignment and they have spent years insisting they must have women's rights as well to the detriment of half the population.

The same would apply to that minority of Trans-folk too of course.

Civility, reason and rights are not a competitive sport.

I thought I was pretty clear. And except in this particular thread, many other women do too.

Dialling back the nasty 'us versus them' would benefit everyone. Simple enough?

I believe that American pies don't always have lids.

I believe that American pies don't always have lids.

I understand what you're trying to illustrate, but surely that's a tart!?

I thought I was pretty clear. And except in this particular thread, many other women do too.

Dialling back the nasty 'us versus them' would benefit everyone. Simple enough?

What's the point in coming on to a forum if you can't (clearly) explain to others what's in that little head of yours. Just a tip, not everyone is able to read telepathic thoughts.

But until you can, here is something for you to think about - men need to stay in their own areas and bugger off out of the women's. It’s the law and always has been.

Ah, a slightly reworded version of the 'rights are not like pie' argument. Not seen that one in a while.

I attach an illustration which might help. Also a friendly hint that scolding the little wimmin tends to go down badly on this board.

HTH.

I think it's "Some people are very special actual full human beings, whilst some others aren't really people at all but are partially-sentient service bipeds for the desires of the special ones."

' I have no idea what you are trying to say.'

... I know.

What a load of vitriol and 'whataboutery' on Mumsnet today! I sincerely hope this does not represent everyone on here...

The problem that some women have with some men is undoubtedly real. But trans-folk in general are not the right target.

In fact even taking a 'women first' stance, this solves little, whilst it certainly makes life more terrifying for those decent trans men (biologically women) and trans women (biologically men) who you want to use toilets mismatched to their gender-presentation, for example, despite them perhaps up I til now being able to live without having to constantly 'out' themselves. When a male-identifying person comes in to your women-only space, you are no further forward in terms of being able to challenge (if that's what you want to do).

If the aim of law and legislation is to minimise harm, then the trans community needs protecting (and given the vitriol here we can see why). Anyone with trans friends will be aware of a litany of assaults, abuse and discrimination that trans people experience. Up until now trans folks have tended to use spaces where they 'pass' best where they can for very obvious reasons.

There is very little evidence that trans women (biological men) as a whole are disproportionately dangerous to women. Of course some are (as are other non-trans men and women). Whereas there is abundant evidence that non-trans women and men are abusive to trans folks, particularly trans women.

It is not a competition!!. Women's rights to safety are not in opposition to trans folks rights to safety. The triumphalism and hatred displayed in some of these mumsnet posts today seem to me to completely miss a human response, and fly in the face of evidence too.

Whether someone accepts or not the court's conclusion (that sex means biological sex) the priority now must be minimising harm for all, which requires much less demonising and rabble rousing.

Of course I expect that for me right now too....

Wut?

I have no idea what you are trying to say. Men (of any kind) need to stay out of women's spaces. Just like they used to do a couple of decades ago.