Open letter by UK writers in solidarity (not with us obviously)

why would I care what UK writers think?

Nicola Coughlan is Irish, I have no idea why she thinks this is any of her business.

I'm sure that if British celebrities started objecting to the decisions of Irish courts on matters of Irish law, Irish people would tell them where to bloody well stick it.

I think it's a combination of career-protection as I said earlier, and also a deep simplification of complex thinking. If everyone around you is shouting 'TERFs are evil! They are committing violence against trans people and want them dead! Even asking to "debate" trans rights means you're coming from an anti-trans stance!" (as someone said in the linked Times article) then I think it's really tricky to let other voices in.

I know I bought into it all in the early days, wanting to be OTRSOH and hearing the echoes of early Stonewall battles, watching the far-right and populism grow across the western world - this seemed a clear and easy way to back vulnerable people and battle against fascist forces that only cared about white, straight men.

It was a drip-drip of articles, podcasts, and of course MN threads that slowly woke me up to the practical realities of all of these "new truths", and they only crept into my life because I'd pulled back from my arts career. When these people are in the absolute thick of it, surrounded by voices getting huge (but still niche) public acclaim for sharing misinformation because it fits with a great narrative of vulnerability and heroism, it would be almost impossible for them to say (like most people on MN do), 'Trans people deserve safety and security and currently have huge protections under the law to ensure these, so can we talk about what women and girls might lose in terms of their own safety and security when TWAW?'

I can't imagine any of those people having the guts to do that in a million years. I am also 99% sure that at least a handful of names who I know quite vaguely on that list are highly, highly GC.

For some privileged people maybe it can be.

Queens have died in childbirth and been raped by their subjects. No woman is immune to sexual violence, nor is she immune to the complications of her reproductive biology.

1. Do they really think that their self-selecting sample of under 1400 people represents every writer on Earth?
2. Do they think that their opinions, based on no scientific training, hold any weight?

Some really depressing names there. I know they're virtues signaling and in the media/lovvie bubble, but do they really think that Isla Bryson should be in a female prison?

I suspect most would say that they don't mean people like him, only real transwomen, but any man, at any stage, can say he's a transwoman, so no one gets to police entry to the trans club.

The lack of real debate about trans issues leads to very simplistic resposes like this. Debate hasn't been possible as it's shut diwn by trans activists - they at least realise that letting light on the issue is not in their interest.

I'd guess he's preoccupied with other stuff.

Has Neil Gaiman not signed yet?

Kelly Jones has a trans child

Ah, that old cobblers.

2020 had the open letter in support of JK Rowling.

Just reading that list I see that Arthur Mathews signed in support of JK. I thought it was reported that he'd turned his back on GL, so was that a load of bollocks?

@Sweetpeasaremadeforbees Kelly Jones has a trans child

It will take some time to unravel the effects of post-Covid hysteria that led to the situation that we were in.

To me it looks like a list of the usual suspects including RTD, Billy Bragg, Sara Pascoe (she's always seemed a bit thick as pig shit to me), a few surprises - James Acaster, Kelly Jones (The Stereophonics? WTF) and no, haven't got a scooby about most of the others.

How can over 1000 people supposedly read the letter and not realise that the date is wrong?

Yes. I imagine if another one was gathered today we'd have more.

Griff Rhys Jones signed! Tony Robinson signed! Love em!

2020 had the open letter in support of JK Rowling.

I can't recall how many original signatories there were, but it ended up as a letter with over 30k signing it.

www.ipetitions.com/petition/in-solidarity-with-jk-rowling

I always think these open letters are a bit unfair in industries that are built on back-biting/back-scratching. Publishing, Arts and Academia are rife with people desperate to cancel one another because they sent on this open letter and that Bad Bad Person didn't sign it.

Any field that relies on word of mouth and personal bonds to get you that lecture, book contract, play staging, TV gig, etc, is going to also be full of people who need to swallow their true beliefs so they can continue to put food on the table. Grim, but true.

The letter itself is total nonsense, as usual; the trans community is extremely vulnerable and marginalised but also feature heavily in the Olivier Awards, the Booker Prize, and the T.S. Eliot Prize, and are explicitly supported by Equity (and others?) who have never been so out and vocal about rights for women or the disabled community. Ahhhh, that women, girls, and disabled creatives and academics could ever dream of such support...

The thing about young people is that a) there are very few of them because of demographic patterns and also because you are older for a much longer time than you are young and b) they all become older people and they change their views.

Just as all the radical free love revolutionaries of the 60s are now property hoarding boomers, the blue-haired Gen Z will move rightward with age (in fact there are a lot more right wing under 25s attracted to Reform and church going than there were in Gen X.)

It's the mistake the progressive left keeps making. Targeting all their messaging at the young who they are confident will be left wing for life - and failing to grasp that people change with experience and knowledge.

I can't remember the phrase that Victoria Smith uses - it's something like cohort versus generational thinking.

That Sunday Times article made grim reading.

This bit!

The judges in Wednesday’s ruling — Lord Reed, Lord Hodge, Lord Lloyd-Jones, Lady Rose and Lady Simler, — were aged between 61 and 73, something that did not go unnoticed by Wright and her peers.

“The Supreme Court ruling just feels like a step backwards,” she said. “A win for bigotry. How is it that a group of older judges who aren’t representative of the diversity of the UK population have been allowed to speak for us?”

How is it possible to get to the age of 23 and not grasp that senior judges are going to be older people because they need a lifetime of experience in the law to move steadily up to to top of their profession? And not to understand that judges aren't doing opinion polling, they're making a decision on a point of law and setting out their reasons in great detail? If her despised parents paid for her education, they should be asking for a refund.

Oh no is JD a gender wonk? As a toddler mum this leaves me in A Hard Place!
also can I have a refund please? 💸💸💸

I'm disappointed Fern Riddell's name is on there. Considering her book, Death in 10 Minutes, is all about suffragettes you'd think she'd have a better understanding of women's struggles. Also Keri Pritchard- McLean, a comedian who frequently mentions on her podcast how difficult it is being a female in a male dominated profession. Can she not then identify as man? Problem solved.

Apologies as haven't read all thread but am surprised Erin Hunter is on the list. That's not even a single person and at one point included Gillian Philip who's been treated appallingly wrt her GC beliefs. And Holly Webb !!!? - hardy a Nobel prize winning writer !

Exactly this

God knows, because if we want to work, we know we have to keep quiet. I have a new MS sitting on my desktop and I haven't sent it off yet because I honestly don't know if I have any future as a GC writer. I have been liking lots of post that out me today.

One of the signatories is Steven Poore, British Fantasy Society.

Beyond parody. I think I recognise about five names, it seems to be more of a self-publicity exercise, and showing everyone how 'kind' they are as much as anything.