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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I did it

178 replies

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 20/04/2025 16:39

I posted in support of the Supreme Court judgment on my Facebook profile.

I've made a note of my friend count, let's see if it drops.

Two likes so far, no comments.

OP posts:
GraduationDay · 20/04/2025 21:50

ArabellaScott · 20/04/2025 21:34

Bloody hell.

A light bulb moment- maybe I'm a bit slow -.but yes. When one is dependent on employment and so many fields are captured, of course younger women are more wary of speaking out.

Yes, I believe the ‘professional boards’ issue is a huge part of the success TRAs have had in framing the narrative - especially in terms of the so called ‘demographic’ of GC women being ‘older’. The sad part of this is that it also means that it is left to older women, sometimes very elderly women to fight this. Some of these women are especially vulnerable due to their age and some have lost valuable support systems in the way of children and grandchildren. I’ve been told a similar dynamic was at play during the fight for abortion in that women in education or health who were in favour of abortion rights were often not able to speak up for fear of committing career suicide. And of course, these fields are heavily female dominated.

NotMyRealAccount · 20/04/2025 21:47

A former friend of mine who went full TRA when one of his daughters declared herself to be non-binary posted on a transgender support thread on an unrelated forum that he'd put up "trans-supportive" FB posts and had no hostility but almost no likes or comments, from which he deduced that most people he knew were quietly supportive of the Supreme Court judgement.

I've been blocked and unfriended in the past for my GC views. I've never felt the need to reciprocate; I'm not that fragile. I have to be careful on social media because two of my daughters are in academia and one of them has expressed concern that being linked to a vociferously GC parent could compromise her own career prospects.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 20/04/2025 21:47

GraduationDay · 20/04/2025 21:31

If you are in the UK you are somewhat protected in your rights to free speech by the Maya Forstater case and a media landscape that is able to give women whose livelihoods are threatened if they exercise free speech on GC at least a chance to make it through and get some exposure, and thus build support and funding for legal recourse if they are pushed out of work. In Canada, NZ and Australia, women who rely on professional boards for registration, especially in education and health have essentially been muted. The legal and media landscapes destroy us here. We look with admiration to the UK and lean heavily on the few of us with independent means (mostly retired women) who are able to speak up. This contributes to the (wrong) assumption that only ‘older’ women have GC views. If you can afford to step out of the shadows, in whatever way possible for you, it’s great and it has ripple effects all the way around the world. Thanks for your courage!

I'm actually in France and I don't really have a decent handle on whether I could get into trouble for speaking up or not.

I guess I'm taking the view that all I am doing is commenting on a court case and I have been very careful not to say anything that could be considered transphobic.

What you say is really chilling because if I was in one of the countries you mention I would not be able to speak out. I'm hoping Sall Grover manages to move the needle for women in Australia. UK litigation can have a persuasive effect on court decisions in those three countries because their legal systems are based on ours and because their populations are smaller and so their volume of litigation is lower their courts often consider UK decisions if a particular point hasn't been litigated in their court system before. I don't know if that would apply in this area of law but I think it's quite likely that the lawyers representing Sall Grover will try to take what they can from the Supreme Court judgment to help her case. And if she loses her appeal, the message then will be, "Female people in the UK have the right to exist in law, in Australia they don't."

OP posts:
Sarah2891 · 20/04/2025 21:39

If likes were private on Facebook, like on Twitter, you'd probably get a lot more.

FoxRedPuppy · 20/04/2025 21:35

I’m protected from being sacked. But not from work colleagues essentially making my working life miserable. And my workplace is pretty captured. I just can’t risk it.

ArabellaScott · 20/04/2025 21:34

GraduationDay · 20/04/2025 21:31

If you are in the UK you are somewhat protected in your rights to free speech by the Maya Forstater case and a media landscape that is able to give women whose livelihoods are threatened if they exercise free speech on GC at least a chance to make it through and get some exposure, and thus build support and funding for legal recourse if they are pushed out of work. In Canada, NZ and Australia, women who rely on professional boards for registration, especially in education and health have essentially been muted. The legal and media landscapes destroy us here. We look with admiration to the UK and lean heavily on the few of us with independent means (mostly retired women) who are able to speak up. This contributes to the (wrong) assumption that only ‘older’ women have GC views. If you can afford to step out of the shadows, in whatever way possible for you, it’s great and it has ripple effects all the way around the world. Thanks for your courage!

Bloody hell.

A light bulb moment- maybe I'm a bit slow -.but yes. When one is dependent on employment and so many fields are captured, of course younger women are more wary of speaking out.

GraduationDay · 20/04/2025 21:31

If you are in the UK you are somewhat protected in your rights to free speech by the Maya Forstater case and a media landscape that is able to give women whose livelihoods are threatened if they exercise free speech on GC at least a chance to make it through and get some exposure, and thus build support and funding for legal recourse if they are pushed out of work. In Canada, NZ and Australia, women who rely on professional boards for registration, especially in education and health have essentially been muted. The legal and media landscapes destroy us here. We look with admiration to the UK and lean heavily on the few of us with independent means (mostly retired women) who are able to speak up. This contributes to the (wrong) assumption that only ‘older’ women have GC views. If you can afford to step out of the shadows, in whatever way possible for you, it’s great and it has ripple effects all the way around the world. Thanks for your courage!

moto748e · 20/04/2025 21:21

(she's nine, I wonder where she's got that from...!)

Just a rhetorical question, I'm sure! 😛

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 20/04/2025 21:20

mumda · 20/04/2025 21:08

I'm not that brave yet.

My FB is full of awful hate towards those who believe in biology.

There's no shame in not being brave enough yet.

But it is insane how we have all been gaslit into believing that there is anything wrong with expressing our belief that women are female and have sex based needs which we don't share with trans women.

OP posts:
Flybee · 20/04/2025 21:16

Well done @MissScarletInTheBallroom

I'm not really a FB user anymore, but have posted a couple of IG stories in the past linking to articles by Hadley Freeman. (Though I admit I did hide a couple of people.)

After the SC ruling, I posted a screenshot of a Twitter post welcoming the judgement by Reem Alsalem (UN Special Rapporteur on violence against women and girls), plus another Twitter post from a journalist.

She doesn't follow me, but the mother of my DD's best friend is despite also being vocal about how much of a feminist she is an ardent TWAW ally and has been making many posts about how unprogressive it is and how women are more likely to be subject to violence from men, especially those they live with, etc.

I was quite tempted to question her, but hers and my DD (who is autistic and depends on her friendship a lot) are so close and get on so well so I can't risk scuppering it.

I have however corrected my DD when she has suggested that there's "men, women and those in between" (she's nine, I wonder where she's got that from...!)

mumda · 20/04/2025 21:08

I'm not that brave yet.

My FB is full of awful hate towards those who believe in biology.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 20/04/2025 21:01

PachacutisBadAuntie · 20/04/2025 20:55

@MissScarletInTheBallroom you have given me courage and I've done similar. I don't have that many friends but I can think of a couple at least who might unfriend me (if they notice!).

Well done!

I think a lot of my Facebook friends won't notice because I think a lot of them probably don't use Facebook anymore.

I have now ended my conversation on a very civil note and although I don't think the other person has significantly changed his views, I think I have opened his eyes to the possibility that the TERFs might have a point about some stuff.

As well as encouraging him to read the judgment I've also linked Hadley Freeman's fantastic interview with Sarah Summers to further illustrate the point about rape crisis services. Hopefully he'll read it and start to realise that the trans rights lobby really hasn't covered itself in glory.

OP posts:
PachacutisBadAuntie · 20/04/2025 20:55

@MissScarletInTheBallroom you have given me courage and I've done similar. I don't have that many friends but I can think of a couple at least who might unfriend me (if they notice!).

TheBroonOneAndTheWhiteOne · 20/04/2025 20:45

Lottapianos · 20/04/2025 16:55

I shared a link to the Sex Matters breakdown of the verdict with a very mild comment of my own. Zero responses from my FB friends. Disappointing but not entirely surprised. I know there are some people in there who are up to their eyeballs in trans ideology 🙄 having lunch with a friend tomorrow who is full on GC so looking forward to that

Thank you for your post.
You've encouraged me to be brave and I've just posted the same link on my friend's FB page.

Underneath where she'd posted Transwomen Are Women.

drspouse · 20/04/2025 20:30

BlessingKalmly · 20/04/2025 20:16

Speak out, and speak loud. You are protected now, and you need to pave the way for other women behind you.

I'm thinking of "I'm a woman, in case you weren't sure" (my first name is a girl's name in almost every European language AFAIK).

Gettingbysomehow · 20/04/2025 20:25

My gay male best friend thinks all this gender stuff is absolute tripe.

springbabydays · 20/04/2025 20:24

Also interesting to see that despite having over 2.5k 'friends' one particular TRA I've seen only receives a handful of likes on their posts. I wonder how many are silently disagreeing!

Gettingbysomehow · 20/04/2025 20:22

I actually know everyone personally on my Facebook page and it's been a week of screeching about "this horrible court decision" and "transwomen are women". These are all people I've been friends with for years, totally brainwashed. One put give me one example of one transwoman who has hurt anyone just one. I answered Isla Bryson. It appears that I've been cancelled.
It's like Brexit all over again. Anyone who wants to discuss anything that is not pro trans is cancelled immediately.
I find this inability to even have a discussion really scary.

springbabydays · 20/04/2025 20:16

MTCoffeePot · 20/04/2025 18:25

I tend to just post fun things on Facebook these days but, it was really getting me down that several friends were posting laments for the SC ruling. Some of these friends are former work colleagues that I knew were full-on 'most oppressed ever' types. Another person is an old friend with a daughter who is trans. I just couldn't believe that they posted photographs of the protests yesterday but were choosing not to see the violent mentality that was evident. Anyway, I posted the Loretta clip from Monty Python last night - no responses - I posted Sonia Sodha's piece from the Observer earlier today. I'm tempted to unfriend them but I have valued their friendship at other times so I don't want to do anything drastic.

I'm resolutely not unfriending anyone because I'm a reasonable person and alternative views don't make me feel that angry.

However I have been unfriended by two people as a result of my post, which I think says much more about them!!

BlessingKalmly · 20/04/2025 20:16

Speak out, and speak loud. You are protected now, and you need to pave the way for other women behind you.

drspouse · 20/04/2025 20:14

Tiddlywinkly · 20/04/2025 19:38

Well done!

My small act was to immediately delete my preferred pronouns from my work signature.

I'm tempted to add something sex based to mine.

VanishingVision · 20/04/2025 20:13

socialdilemmawhattodo · 20/04/2025 19:25

I agree. A lot of friends i have for my main interest are gay men, and yes gosh the TWAW rubbish I've put up with is crazy. There is a lot of misogyny and male entitlement. They just do not understand why women have objected so strongly. So perhaps opposite to you i haven't posted on my Facebook page, but have been strongly commenting and liking on twitter. I follow a lawyer who specialises in fighting sen education tribunals. He posted a lengthy Facebook post earlier and I and few other people did comment. I've had hostile comments and reactions. I may take a look later in the week but can't be bothered now!

Do you what I also find interesting about how deeply misogynistic many gay man are? That they can also be the most deeply transphobic also, worse than anyone could ever accuse JKR of (I don't really think JKR is transphobic). I think that is rooted in misogyny because, as they only want to be around other gay men and they hate women, they can see TW as being gay man who have 'transed' out of being gay to be women (who they hate) and they hate TM because they are women who want to be men. Just a thought I had recently.

I haven't posted anything yet! But I'm very tempted but I dunno whether to wait for the protests to quiet a little. I'm drafting a lengthy post actuslly as we speak. I hope you don't get too much more hostility!

Tiddlywinkly · 20/04/2025 19:38

Well done!

My small act was to immediately delete my preferred pronouns from my work signature.

socialdilemmawhattodo · 20/04/2025 19:25

VanishingVision · 20/04/2025 17:47

And honestly alot of gay men are deeply misogynistic as well.

I agree. A lot of friends i have for my main interest are gay men, and yes gosh the TWAW rubbish I've put up with is crazy. There is a lot of misogyny and male entitlement. They just do not understand why women have objected so strongly. So perhaps opposite to you i haven't posted on my Facebook page, but have been strongly commenting and liking on twitter. I follow a lawyer who specialises in fighting sen education tribunals. He posted a lengthy Facebook post earlier and I and few other people did comment. I've had hostile comments and reactions. I may take a look later in the week but can't be bothered now!

BottomsByTheirTops · 20/04/2025 19:22

I’ve also used the SC judgement to fully out myself as a Terf on Facebook.
I warmed up with male boxers in the Olympics (several likes from women with sporty daughters).
Moved onto TIM prison officers strip searching female visitors in Scotland.
Then went full celebratory with the SC announcement (a few likes, no comments).
Followed next day by DocStock in unherd (no comments).
No drop in friend numbers, no ranting.
Maybe no one looks at my posts anyway!

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