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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Tomorrow's Mail front page: Labour trying to reverse reverse ferret

306 replies

teawamutu · 19/04/2025 22:42

Fuck sake is this ever going to be over?

Please tell me this is bollocks to hold Starmer's feet to the fire, somebody?

https://x.com/MailOnlineScot/status/1913702114129330408

https://x.com/MailOnlineScot/status/1913702114129330408

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EasternStandard · 21/04/2025 11:32

Shortshriftandlethal · 21/04/2025 10:44

Surely some of that crowd must be feeling embarrassed?

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1913984842582106289

Blimey. JKR is so good on this.

I also love anti-women legislators title she gives. That needs to stick to politicians who do it.

EasternStandard · 21/04/2025 11:28

The best way to hold Labour’s feet to the fire is to vote in a way that will unsettle them at the local elections.

The polls show an election today would govern Reform power. Of course there’s a while to go before the next GE so there might be oh it will change. Votes OTH do send a message.

If they keep sounding out of touch and pissing people / women off it’s not without consequence.

SionnachRuadh · 21/04/2025 11:22

I think there's also a question of whether it's a good idea to have the head of an independent regulator be someone who's so obviously party political. Labour might not care, they might take the view that they're in charge with a huge majority and what they say goes.

But if I were advising Labour I might be looking for someone who's less of a lightning rod. I might ask what Ben Summerskill has been doing recently, and whether he's said anything controversial on this issue.

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 21/04/2025 11:19

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 21/04/2025 11:18

I agree, but I also think that making it clear that she is far too controversial - I don’t think Joe/Josephine Public are on board with normalising paedophilia. There needs to be a concerted effort to remind them of her links to that.

In other words, make her too hot to handle.

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 21/04/2025 11:18

SionnachRuadh · 21/04/2025 11:15

The way it will work is, the job will be open for applications, there will be interviews with a panel, the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Pat McFadden) will decide on his preferred candidate, and the PM will have to agree.

Because this is a significant appointment that's supposed to be independent and hold the government to account, there will be a pre-appointment hearing with the Women and Equalities Committee where the preferred candidate will be questioned on their fitness for the job.

As I see it, if Harman applies she would on the face of it be a very credible candidate. So what it will come down to is either there's a stronger candidate or Pat McFadden and/or No10 spads decide she's too controversial a proposition.

So it might be best to game out what happens if she does get it. And there I think she might be constrained. She might fudge guidance, but actually going against the SC would be highly risky for her.

I agree, but I also think that making it clear that she is far too controversial - I don’t think Joe/Josephine Public are on board with normalising paedophilia. There needs to be a concerted effort to remind them of her links to that.

Shortshriftandlethal · 21/04/2025 11:18

I know what you mean..... but it also It strikes me that the trans movement is a home for all sorts of odd balls and misfits. If you look at the crowd.....looks like a combination of incels, overweight and not conventionally attractive people, isolated gamers, and those with knock knees and pigeon toes.

I'm not sure what look that guy is aiming for........certainly not rock chick, or sexy tennis girl. Maybe he's going for the 'Hinge and Bracket' look?

SionnachRuadh · 21/04/2025 11:15

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 21/04/2025 10:56

Completely agree - but how?

The way it will work is, the job will be open for applications, there will be interviews with a panel, the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Pat McFadden) will decide on his preferred candidate, and the PM will have to agree.

Because this is a significant appointment that's supposed to be independent and hold the government to account, there will be a pre-appointment hearing with the Women and Equalities Committee where the preferred candidate will be questioned on their fitness for the job.

As I see it, if Harman applies she would on the face of it be a very credible candidate. So what it will come down to is either there's a stronger candidate or Pat McFadden and/or No10 spads decide she's too controversial a proposition.

So it might be best to game out what happens if she does get it. And there I think she might be constrained. She might fudge guidance, but actually going against the SC would be highly risky for her.

RethinkingLife · 21/04/2025 11:11

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 21/04/2025 10:56

Completely agree - but how?

Her recent misinterpretation of the SC judgment might be indicative of partiality and a reason to not appoint her. Nolan Principles would be useful here.

RedToothBrush · 21/04/2025 11:08

Shortshriftandlethal · 21/04/2025 10:44

Surely some of that crowd must be feeling embarrassed?

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1913984842582106289

Christ Almighty.

I avoid making comments along these lines as a rule, but if you stick a grey skirt of that length and design, you really aren't helping your own optics. Especially when combined with that top combo which screams Gryffindor.

RethinkingLife · 21/04/2025 11:03

EasternStandard · 21/04/2025 10:45

I’ve not heard Helen Joyce speaking before, just listening now. She’s brilliant.

Admirably clear speaker.

She has a training offer for writing and media training and I keep wishing that I could justify it for work.

CarefulN0w · 21/04/2025 11:01

I think there will be journalists looking for new angles. Some already on our side, but there will be others who have avoided the debate until now, who will want to be able to pretend they supported us women all along. Does anyone have any contacts?

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 21/04/2025 10:56

CarefulN0w · 21/04/2025 10:55

I think making sure that the public know about Harriet Harmen’s history with PIE needs to be high on our agenda. We really need to try hard to stop her becoming ERHC chair.

Completely agree - but how?

CarefulN0w · 21/04/2025 10:55

I think making sure that the public know about Harriet Harmen’s history with PIE needs to be high on our agenda. We really need to try hard to stop her becoming ERHC chair.

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 21/04/2025 10:48

EasternStandard · 21/04/2025 10:45

I’ve not heard Helen Joyce speaking before, just listening now. She’s brilliant.

Oh you must go and find some of her older interviews. She speaks SO clearly and insightfully (and humorously). She writes well, but hearing her speak is something else. She was one of the first people I heard speaking on “all this” and she utterly
blew my mind.

EasternStandard · 21/04/2025 10:45

I’ve not heard Helen Joyce speaking before, just listening now. She’s brilliant.

Shortshriftandlethal · 21/04/2025 10:44

Surely some of that crowd must be feeling embarrassed?

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1913984842582106289

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1913984842582106289

EasternStandard · 21/04/2025 10:25

@Shortshriftandlethaltotally agree with your post and think it’s not over. I’m relieved the ruling went as it did, even imagining the opposite decision is bad enough, but we’re not out of the woods yet.

The unions and some Labour MPs will try to mobilise.

Starmer has only ever avoided decisions on this and waffled nonsense.

Shortshriftandlethal · 21/04/2025 10:12

EasternStandard · 21/04/2025 09:49

This is concerning.

The only upside is the public are more aware than ever of the pro women stance on this. If Labour and Harmen try to make this go away and not see through the Supreme Court decision other parties will do well out of that.

Yes, Reform will do very well out of it....and Kemi may even have another small moment in the sun. And because it will be right leaning parties that affirm the issue, the polarisation will get even more intense........and as with the U.S.A post Trump, the 'progressives' will lose their minds and start doing extreme things.

Shortshriftandlethal · 21/04/2025 10:06

Supreme Court rulings are binding and can only ever be over-turned in very extreme circumstances, and then it has to be over-turned by the Supreme Court itself. Supreme court rulings are binding on all lower courts.

The ruling was unequivocal. There were no caveats.

This doesn't mean that lower courts and organisations and activist barristers will not attempt to challenge the ruling. This is why the guidance from the EHCR is so important, and Baronness Falkner is determined to give very clear new guidance before she leaves office.This is what most concerns angela Eagle, Chris Bryant etc.....at present the ruling is theoretical, but when guidance is issued then organisations will have to act on that guidance, or else face penalties.

What this group wants to do is to thwart, or certainly to anticipate, the upcoming guidance and maybe try to get changes effected by organisations as soon as possible - so as to get around the new guidance in advance. Sarah Montague, on BBC Radio 4, was suggesting that the guidance could be got around by all places implementing unisex facilities now ( unisex facilities are not against the ruling if they already exist, as far as I understand?)Harriet Harman, and the BBC, are still misrepresenting the ruling.

Kier Starmer made a pledge at the last election to make getting a GRC far easier. Being a lawyer he thought he was on firm legal ground when he said that "some women have a penis".......but that has now been dismissed. Even with a GRC. a man is not a woman in law. He is going to be paralysed, not knowing what to do, and will continue to try and fudge the issue.

The NEU ( teacher's union) have become radicalised loons and at this week's conference they are vowing not to change trans policies in schools.

The battle is still on. It was good to enjoy the recent win.....but the war is not over. This saga has a long time to run yet...and there is a need for caution and for longer term determination and strategy.

fromorbit · 21/04/2025 10:00

SionnachRuadh · 21/04/2025 09:52

They'll have to go through a formal regulated recruitment process for the new chair, so even if No10 have a preferred candidate they won't be able to simply parachute someone in. Parent department is Cabinet Office, so it's going to be Pat McFadden who makes the choice. This is one of those roles where Labour will want a heavy hitter, and they won't want someone with a tendency to go off message like Trevor Phillips.

But there will be lots of eyes on this appointment and the political side of goverment will be massively interested.

Pat McFadden is sympathetic to reality. He was supporting Rosie's right to speak before it was fashionable to do so.

Things are moving fast. We shall see how it plays out.

RedToothBrush · 21/04/2025 09:59

SionnachRuadh · 21/04/2025 09:52

They'll have to go through a formal regulated recruitment process for the new chair, so even if No10 have a preferred candidate they won't be able to simply parachute someone in. Parent department is Cabinet Office, so it's going to be Pat McFadden who makes the choice. This is one of those roles where Labour will want a heavy hitter, and they won't want someone with a tendency to go off message like Trevor Phillips.

But there will be lots of eyes on this appointment and the political side of goverment will be massively interested.

Re Philips 'going off message'

Every time he has, he's ultimately been ahead of the curve in terms of recognising a genuine problem that has had to be then recognised later down the line...

SionnachRuadh · 21/04/2025 09:52

They'll have to go through a formal regulated recruitment process for the new chair, so even if No10 have a preferred candidate they won't be able to simply parachute someone in. Parent department is Cabinet Office, so it's going to be Pat McFadden who makes the choice. This is one of those roles where Labour will want a heavy hitter, and they won't want someone with a tendency to go off message like Trevor Phillips.

But there will be lots of eyes on this appointment and the political side of goverment will be massively interested.

EasternStandard · 21/04/2025 09:49

Signalbox · 21/04/2025 09:44

I heard that. And she’s already misrepresented the SC judgment.

This is concerning.

The only upside is the public are more aware than ever of the pro women stance on this. If Labour and Harmen try to make this go away and not see through the Supreme Court decision other parties will do well out of that.

Signalbox · 21/04/2025 09:44

Theeyeballsinthesky · 21/04/2025 09:41

I believe Harriet harman is being lined up as her replacement

I heard that. And she’s already misrepresented the SC judgment.

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 21/04/2025 09:42

Theeyeballsinthesky · 21/04/2025 09:41

I believe Harriet harman is being lined up as her replacement

Oh FFS. Mrs PIE? How do we make sure that doesn’t happen?

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