Trans women are still women 2nd thread

No I disagree transwomen are wearing clothes. As women, men, non binary and trans men wear clothes. It’s not a costume it’s just clothing. You can call trans women men if you want to be pedantic because genetically they are born male. But why not just call them trans women?

That’s so minimising.

There are things we see in girls that we don’t see in little boys, for example. If you see them in your little boy, he may well be trans - and I think it’s a shame for parents to take issue with that, or shame them for that when they’re older.

No I don't deny they exist, I just don't think there is any valid argument that it is ever progressive for society to be built around a set of stereotypes.

My heart aches for the children who've been caught up in this nonsense. For shame. How regressive to tell a boy who likes pink he's really a girl or a girl who doesn't like dolls but prefers trucks she must be a boy.

Scandalous.

This ☝️
👏 👏 👏

Gender ideology is definitely informed by stereotypes and cultural “norms,” yeah.

You personally don’t have to live by them, or follow them, but I don’t believe it can be denied to exist.

ETA - the sexual fetish thing I actually agree with. Some men fetishise the idea of being a woman, but that doesn’t remove the group of genuine trans people who don’t have those intentions. Part of the issue with the debate is conflating the two - they’re not the same and they don’t have the same motivations.

Actually to be fair that's the best definition I've seen.

I think there are lots of different types of men and lots of different types of women. But they are both defined by their biology, and our SC has confirmed this which highlights it's importance.

I think opening up the bandwidth of being a woman in our navel gazing privileged 1st world culture is just saying that female archetypes define womanhood. No man is aspiring to be an impoverished African woman, labouring at collecting water for her family to survive.

We've had to get real and 'unkind' about it and reach this crucial truth because women have had some very unreasonable scenarios thrown at them.

A prefix meaning someone who would like to be the opposite sex to the one they were born into?

I'm guessing clothing and make-up.

Nope I didn't ask that.

So you mean they wear trans woman costumes not women costumes?

Completely agree with you on that. Trans women are men and women are women.

Can anyone explain what 'trans' is then?

I agree

@whippy1981 are you asking me in a roundabout way if I believe trans women are women? No I believe women are women and trans women are trans women. The two are not the same. I have no objection to trans women but i support women’s right to be safe and to thrive in society.

So are you saying that gender is based on stereotypes and therefore we are now saying that if people do not meet the stereotypes they must be the other gender?

Wow I reckon I could be a man, that's serious news to me and to my kids that I birthed.

I mean it's all just so regressive and this totally and utterly ignores the fact that for some men it's nothing more than a fetish.

As Zoldevort so accurately said on the other thread -

The one and only absolute criteria to be a transwoman, is to be a man

A man dressed as a woman is a man dressed as a woman then! He doesn;t become a woman if he wears what you call 'woman costume' in the same way that I do not become batman the minute I dress up as that character.

Aye I am grand thanks. Can you answer my question?

I don’t - put the bins out, wash the car, cut the grass, do any DIY. In our house, they’re “blue jobs.”

They’re blue jobs for the very obvious reasons. It stands to reason that there are also “pink jobs.”

My partner doesn’t shave his legs, he’s not spending £50 on haircuts, he’s not bothered if his nails look like shit.

Does nobody have “maternal instinct” anymore, or “female intuition”?

We can’t say there aren’t gender conforming stereotypes when most of us do live by them.

No a woman in a superhero costume (the example you gave) is in fancy dress. Are you ok?

So a woman is a fancy dress costume! wow! So they are not women if they are having to pretend to be one then?

If they are women how does a woman become a trans woman?

What is woman gender? It's just a set of stereotypes?

The who point of the SC judgement was that trans identifying males (transwomen) were claiming to be female SEX for the purpose of the Equality Act single sex provisions.

They were encouraged and guided by Stonewall who misrepresented the law.

Unfortunately, there has been an argument about sex. Incredible as that might sound.
For example, there's an ongoing case involving NHS Fife where a transwoman (man) declared that he had changed sex and is now biologically female!!! Some poor nurses are having to fight not to have to share a changing room with him.
At least the idea that men can change biology may at least be put to rest now with any luck.

yes it does in a fancy dress sense. Same as if they wear a pointy hat, cloak and broom they are a witch. The point I originally made was that trans women typically adopt behaviours/appearance typically associated with women. Pick apart my wording if it pleases you to but it still remains a fact.

Not gonna lie - that confuses me too.

Sex is binary, gender isn’t. You can’t be sex fluid, but you can be gender fluid.

The TWAW crowd, usually mean that their gender is that of a woman, not their sex. I always assumed the biology wasn’t an argument, it was whether we should acknowledge gender identity as a deciding factor on spaces etc, rather than “just” sex.

That’s part of my confusion around the SC judgement - I didn’t realise there was an argument about sex.

Don't be daft.
Transwomen are men.
Depending on where they are in the transformation stage as follows -
No physical changes = transvestite
Bits cut off = mutilated man

Being a woman is not a costume.

If they put on a cape and mask does that turn them into a superhero?