Trans women are still women 2nd thread

Are you all the same people who talk about the division of labour in the home?

Er.. no, I think you are not wherever you think you are.

Hasn't it occurred to you at all that some of us choose not to have males in our homes at all, so they aren't there to hold doors open/do the DIY/steer us through crowds/protect us from other males?

You have a very limited view of Real Life as it is lived by the variety of women on here. I mean, very limited..

Do me a favour and reply all in one go?

I don’t see it in the same way as an eating disorder, no. Mainly because the actual NHS guidance is;

Treatment for gender dysphoria aims to help people live the way they want to, in their preferred gender identity or as non-binary.

I don’t think the treatment plan for ED is the same. In fact I know it isn’t, from personal experience. I didn’t identify as bulimic, and the treatment didn’t involve endorsing that dysmorphia. Living the way I wanted to would have involved ultimately, death.

Enabling trans people to live the way they want to, is not quite the same impact, and apart from some people not liking it has very little bearing on someone else’s life. It isn’t harmful to someone to let them live in the gender identity they want to.

And in my house when we divide the labour, I do the DIY and drive, DH vacuums and dusts.
I cook, he annoyingly enough shops, as do I. The strongest person does the heavy jobs. I used to be the jar opener as my hands were stronger than his. I am also more coordinated.

Division of Labour in your house may be along 1950s lines, but that’s to do with you, not sex or gender.

What are you on about?

Are you saying that if you don't believe there are blue and pink jobs then you must be letting your man laze about?

Are you all the same people who talk about the division of labour in the home? Women do it all and men laze about expecting their tea on the table?

We both work full time, we divide the labour. We divide it into things I don’t claim responsibility for doing, and things that I do - essentially.

On the list of things I don’t do, are manual labour and “dirty jobs.” It makes sense to me… to not do them.

You don't believe in gender dysphoria?

I don’t believe that being transgender is a mental illness. So that’s not comparable IMO.

And what has that got to do with DIY, putting the bins out and washing the car

What so men are apparently dangerous because they’re bigger than us, but can’t actually be any help or protection during dangerous situations because of the same reason?

I am also claustrophobic tbf 😂

But - I’ll take the being kept safe, thank you.

If a violent man, for example, was giving me hassle in a bar, you better believe I expect my partner to step in.

You cannot change sex. It is not kind or helpful to people who are struggling to pretend that they can change sex, because they can't.

Would you agree with your anorexic daughter that she was fat? Get her liposuction and a treadmill?

So if we just follow that further - if she was adamant she identified as male, and as an adult wanted to change her body… what then?

I don’t believe that any parent-child relationship is worth losing over that argument.

One of my employees has a non-binary child, who has changed their name. She accepts it, her father doesn’t - she only speaks to one of them.

Oh my god I've fallen asleep and woken up in the 1950s. 'Being guided through crowded spaces'? Fucking hell.

If my daughter came to me and said she thought she was a boy, I wouldn't shame her but I absolutely would 100% not go along with the fiction that she is a boy or could ever be a boy. Being male or female is a biological fact, it's not a set of stereotypes about mowing lawns and cleaning toilets good lord.

Wear what you like, do what you enjoy, fancy who you fancy, you can never change sex.

They are - aren’t they?

Unless I live in some fictional reality where women and men aren’t different in any way.

If we were out, and for some reason in danger, my 6ft4 partner is better able (and IMO expected because of that) to protect us both.

I kinda feel that we can’t have it both ways. I don’t want to do the dirty jobs, and I’m not a massive bloke. If I’m going to benefit from the socially constructed ideas of gender norms, I can’t suddenly be furious that I’m living to them.

I take the car door opening, the being guided through crowded spaces, the protection from seedy men on nights out, the carrying of heavier bags. It would be fairly unreasonable to do all of that and then be like “what is gender 🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️.”

She did think she was a boy. I didn't shame her for it.

I just told her it's not possible and a girl can be anything they want to be.

Have you not heard about Keira Bell? Does it not bother you that if children are told lies by adults they will believe them.

I was never going to agree my daughter is a boy because it's just fucking nonsense.

Gosh I must be a man then 🙄

only this weekend I have put out the bins, drilled holes in a wheelbarrow to make a planter, ripped up decking, painted a wall, put two flat pack chairs together, with a drill and cut the grass

where is my man of the year award

I don’t agree with anyone making changes to their developing body, certainly not those that can’t be reversed.

I do think however that if an adult tells us they identify a certain way and they want to make informed choices about their own bodies, we should probably just believe them.

The point I was making is that had your daughter come to you and said she thought she was a boy, I think it’s a shame that some would shame her for feeling that way.

Also it has a tendency to be homophobic. A generation ago boys who liked those things (and other boys) were gay. Now we can avoid that issue by saying that they're actually girls.

Nonsense

Did I fall asleep and wake up in the early 1970s? Little boys liking girls things and therefore not being 'real' boys, men putting out the bins and washing the cars...

My daughter is gender non conforming. She's also autistic, CAMHS thought she might be a boy.

She isn't. She's a girl, a girl with short hair who loves to play cricket and doesn't conform to things that most 15 year old girls do.

There is nothing wrong with a girl who doesn't conform with stereotypes. It doesn't mean that she is a trans boy.

So many vulnerable teenage girls wearing chest binders, wanting puberty blockers and eventually cross sex hormones and double mastectomies.

And you think I'm minimising???

For goodness sake, and I'll repeat THE FACT THAT A PERSON DOESN'T CONFORM TO GENDER STEREOTYPES DOES NOT MAKE THEM THE OPPOSITE GENDER.

Fucking hideous what not minimising is doing!

Because they are predominantly done by men.

I can't believe you've actually written those words - Operation Let Them Speak in action: if a little boy rejects socially-constructed gender stereotypes and likes something only girls are 'supposed' to do, he may be transgender?
Why can't he just be a little boy who likes what he likes and feck the stereotypes?

don’t - put the bins out, wash the car, cut the grass, do any DIY. In our house, they’re “blue jobs.”
They’re blue jobs for the very obvious reasons.
What are the very obvious reasons that these are blue jobs?