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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How do I handle this?!

89 replies

PyongyangKipperbang · 19/04/2025 00:09

Full disclosure, had a couple of wines.

Out for a drink with eldest DD and DD3, who had more than a couple. She decided, whilst obviously drunk, to have an all out "I am not a woman, I am a man, my pronouns are he him, does that mean you wont love me anymore?" She is 20. Eldest DD (27) tried to rein it in, as did I because its not a good time to have that kind of conversation.

I said that I would always love her but I said that I would probably forget her new chosen name and will almost certainly call her by her birth name, but thats not out of disrespect but from habit. She was fine with that, but then went on a rant about JK. She said "I know you love JK and you have to choose her or me" I said "I dont love JK but I believe in science". Then she said "Do you believe in my choice or JK?!!!" and I said "I respect your choice. But you know I believe in womens rights". She started saying "Then you dont love me" and I said (I was calm, took a lot of effort) "I am not being emotionally blackmailed" and left.

What do I do now?

ETA that I realised that I said "I believe in womens rights" and that when she lost it

OP posts:
selffellatingouroborosofhate · 23/04/2025 08:20

dlob · 22/04/2025 18:12

What I wrote could - should, indeed - be relatively clear to one who, like OP's DD, asked someone to read Judith Butler to back up her thoughts. I guess I thought this DD probably wouldn't understand it ...

But if you want to start to get to grips with the ideas around post-structuralism and hence Judith Butler and stuff, here's a start. (Butler is a really sloppy thinker, and often difficult to follow because of this ... and it's probably best not to take her or her writing too seriously; but, yes, post-structuralism can be tackled on its home turf, so to speak. This will be too brief. But, well, the history is interesting and the ideas surprisingly influential. So here goes.)

I mentioned the "transcendental signified". This is a coinage of Jacques Derrida. Two parts: 'transcendental', from Immanuel Kant and 'signified' from Ferdinand de Saussure (with an important hat-tip to Claude Lévi-Strauss).

Kant specified a form of argument he denoted 'transcendental' (he called his metaphysics 'transcendental idealism', although we won't need to do much with that). A transcendental argument uses the condition-of-the-possibility of something ... like this:
X is a condition of the possibility of Y
Y exists
(Therefore) X exists.

[Kant argued as follows, for instance: (the content of) synthetic a priori judgements (e.g. like those in mathematics) are a condition of the possibility of human experience; we humans certainly have experiences; so some synthetic a priori judgements are certainly well-founded. (That's what Kant called 'The Proper Problem of Pure Reason' solved, in a nutshell. Neat, no? Why it doesn't work? Left as exercise.)]

OK, now 'signified', an important term in semiotics (theories of signs and symbols) within the 'structural linguistics' (as it later became known) of Saussure - or simply 'structuralism', including the work of Lévi-Strauss on societal (rather than, as in Saussure, more narrowly linguistic) structures. (Possibly others too.)

Long story short: signs signify; two parts to this, the signifier and the signified. Enter Jacques Derrida. In order to have linguistic meanings, it seems we need to have signifieds for our signifiers. Otherwise it looks like our signs - including our words - will lack meaning.

The existence of signifieds, then, is a condition of the possibility of us meaning anything by our discourse. The signified is transcendental in that Kantian sense. So it seems, at any rate. But, as Derrida pointed out, Saussurean linguistics (and Lévi-Straussian social anthropology) locate signification only within structure - there seems no actually existing external-to-structure signifieds ('things', 'objects' as Ludwig Wittgenstein called them in his early work). Thus, Derrida concluded, there are no fixed meanings ... meaning is always ineluctably deferred (for which deferral Derrida minted a new word in French: "différance").

Hence Judith Butler and all that slipperiness about meanings and so on. (One aspect of postmodernism.) "What does 'woman' mean? - It's complicated ..." And off we jolly well go.

But there's another possible conclusion to be drawn from the lack of the so-called transcendental signified: perhaps signifieds are not transcendental after all. Perhaps we don't need things or objects for our signifiers to signify, at least in some cases, in order for our discourse to be meaningful. (I mentioned Wittgenstein earlier: he decided he was wrong about 'objects' wrt word meanings, and thoroughly and carefully debunked the whole idea in his later work. Of course lots of the postmodern crew, including Butler, misread Wittgenstein's later work, or simply ignore it, in this regard. Oh well.)

Of course this doesn't say there are no women, anything like that. No, really. The Supreme Court knew - as we all do - what 'woman' and 'sex' mean in everyday life and in law, without there being objects - signifieds - these words - signifiers - signify or refer to. Collapse of post-structuralist slippy-sloppiness and Judith Butler's nonsense.

[I haven't mentioned modus ponens/tollens. These are names of forms of logical argument. Look up "One person's modus ponens is another's modus tollens," to get the point I was making. I've written enough.]

I've over-simplified, but not much. Judith Butler and others do try to muddy the waters, it's true. But hold on to your common sense and you won't go far wrong. If OP's DD really does think Butler successfully justifies nonsense like "TWAW," "sex isn't binary," whatever, it really is just because she doesn't understand what's going on. (DD, I mean. -- Some people think Butler simply a charlatan peddling stuff she knows to be silly, but more charitably, I suspect she doesn't understand either. Who knows? It's obvious nonsense, though, when you read it, the more particularly when you see it in historical context.)

Your explanation is still, to this STEM graduate, a wall of utter incomprehensibility.

myplace · 23/04/2025 07:52

MordantCarnival · 23/04/2025 05:41

"She said "I know you love JK and you have to choose her or me" I said "I dont love JK but I believe in science"" [my emphasis]

I'm still a little baffled that a truly concerning number of people still think that xx to equal a woman and xy to equal a man is an exclusive default, and then go on to to erroneously claim it as scientific fact.

I don't know your educational background, but at my school we learned about intersex people and chromosomal variation not being tied exclusively to pubescent development in Biology when we were around 14. It was pretty fundamental science, to be honest.

So, when you - and others like you - say "I believe in science", I have to ask... how basic is your science, exactly?

It’s copy pasted bollocks and you know it.

Robert Winston studies science quite a lot and he doesn’t agree with you.

Notmysupervisor · 23/04/2025 07:41

MordantCarnival · 23/04/2025 05:41

"She said "I know you love JK and you have to choose her or me" I said "I dont love JK but I believe in science"" [my emphasis]

I'm still a little baffled that a truly concerning number of people still think that xx to equal a woman and xy to equal a man is an exclusive default, and then go on to to erroneously claim it as scientific fact.

I don't know your educational background, but at my school we learned about intersex people and chromosomal variation not being tied exclusively to pubescent development in Biology when we were around 14. It was pretty fundamental science, to be honest.

So, when you - and others like you - say "I believe in science", I have to ask... how basic is your science, exactly?

What a horrible, sneering response. Do you feel terribly clever now?

Anyway, OP, I’m really sorry you’re going through this. I have little to add to what has been said other than that our front brains aren’t done developing until c.25 which is why we’re inclined to impulsivity and strong feelings when younger. Your approach sounds loving and compassionate and I very much hope it works out for the best.

MordantCarnival · 23/04/2025 05:41

"She said "I know you love JK and you have to choose her or me" I said "I dont love JK but I believe in science"" [my emphasis]

I'm still a little baffled that a truly concerning number of people still think that xx to equal a woman and xy to equal a man is an exclusive default, and then go on to to erroneously claim it as scientific fact.

I don't know your educational background, but at my school we learned about intersex people and chromosomal variation not being tied exclusively to pubescent development in Biology when we were around 14. It was pretty fundamental science, to be honest.

So, when you - and others like you - say "I believe in science", I have to ask... how basic is your science, exactly?

WarriorN · 23/04/2025 01:45

I think so, I don’t have daughters and my sons are younger but that sounds like a good approach. Perhaps sometimes 3 weeks, sometimes 4? Maybe sometimes a nice card/ post card you think she’ll find interesting. You don’t have to say much in it, just hope she’s doing well etc, sending lots of love etc. you’re demonstrating unconditional love and no pressure for her to respond.

PyongyangKipperbang · 23/04/2025 00:54

WarriorN · 22/04/2025 22:54

@PyongyangKipperbangthat sounds very difficult - I’d keep repeating your lines around that fact that you cannot be coerced to believe something you don’t nor emotionally blackmailed.

You’re happy to have reasoned discussions but you can’t be forced to agree, which, to be fair, neither can she. But your relationship is very important to you and you love her unconditionally.

Thats pretty much my line now.

DD1 is still in touch with her and said the DD4 seems to be mainly embarrassed that she made a show of herself rather than angry with me. I said that I would appreciate it if she would let DD4 know that I would love to see her before she goes back to uni (she is staying at her dads this hols) and that regardless of our differing beliefs, I love her very much. But DD4 is stubborn and proud (cant imagine where she gets that from.....) so I may not see her until the summer. But I will message her once a month and see what happens. I thought the once a week might make her feel harrassed but one a term isnt enough. Thoughts on once a month?

OP posts:
WarriorN · 22/04/2025 22:54

@PyongyangKipperbangthat sounds very difficult - I’d keep repeating your lines around that fact that you cannot be coerced to believe something you don’t nor emotionally blackmailed.

You’re happy to have reasoned discussions but you can’t be forced to agree, which, to be fair, neither can she. But your relationship is very important to you and you love her unconditionally.

WarriorN · 22/04/2025 22:49

Love that post @dlob. It has significant crossovers with speech and language therapy concepts around how children acquire language and meaning. Children with specific sp and language differences / autism can have specific difficulties with symbols (linked to words/ meaning).

which is why this ideology enforced onto children, especially those with learning difficulties/ and or autism, is so very dangerous.

See also Magritte’s Ceci n'est pas une pomme, who I read somewhere also had something to do with Foucault.

BigBadaBoom · 22/04/2025 22:11

I'm not one for formal logic, but I think it's worth putting the correct logical order on changes in human rights in recent history. Namely, that the backtracking on feminism began before the surge in trans rights.

For example, Nuts and Zoo magazine launched 20 years ago, riding off the back of lad and ladette culture and the normalising "feminist empowerment" of male-gaze pleasing plastic surgery. Top shelf magazines at the supermarket, but not wank mags for dirty old men, and not nudie car mechanic's calendars for the ignorant, uneducated masses... now soft porn was for sophisticated, ironic, self-aware university educated blokey blokes as well. But never mind the sexism, "boys will be boys"!

And then came Game of Thrones, beloved of millennial progressives, with its casual misogyny and pornification of TV. It hit our screens in 2011 and treating women as sex objects was back in vogue for the political left, because even in fantasy fiction, sex work is work, and rape on TV is fine as long as it's realistically grim (men, just remember not to get too turned on).

The Guardian loved GoT and no-one in that particular bubble had a problem with the misogyny. People still talk about how the last two seasons lost the story, very few people talk about how it also dropped the misogyny. Notice how #metoo was outlived by twaw? I suspect the truth is that the left never really lost its socialist era misogyny. It just hid it until being a woman-hating progressive found a new trojan horse in the form of trans rights.

woollyhatter · 22/04/2025 18:42

On a more serious note the think the modus tollens and ponens is an easier way to address it. I asked copilot and here is the answer it came up with

Modus ponens is a logical argument form that follows this structure:

  1. If P, then Q.
  2. P is true.
  3. Therefore, Q is true.
To apply this to Dr. Beth Upton's statement that they are "biologically female," we would need to identify a conditional statement (If P, then Q) that aligns with their reasoning. Based on their argument, one possible formulation could be:
  1. If "biologically female" means having a female identity, then Dr. Upton is biologically female.
  2. Dr. Upton has a female identity.
  3. Therefore, Dr. Upton is biologically female.
This reasoning follows the modus ponens structure, but whether the premises are factually accurate or widely accepted is a separate debate. Dr. Upton has argued that biological sex has no universally agreed definition in science and that their identity determines their biological classification. This claim has been met with criticism from those who argue that biological sex is determined by chromosomes and reproductive anatomy.
woollyhatter · 22/04/2025 18:35

Sillying the tone somewhat but my favourite Descartes joke is
A horse walks into a bar. Barman says “you’re in here often. Do you think you’re an alcoholic?” Horse replies “I don’t think I am” and vanishes.
This joke is about Descartes’ saying “I think therefore I am”. But explaining that first would be putting Descartes before the horse.

dlob · 22/04/2025 18:12

Evolutionarygoals · 22/04/2025 10:09

@dlob I think you're probably playing Butler at her own game here buti would also appreciate a clear language translation. With post structuralism I can't shake the feeling the language used is designed to be confusing to the lay person - maybe they feel more intellectual if only a few people can understand them...

What I wrote could - should, indeed - be relatively clear to one who, like OP's DD, asked someone to read Judith Butler to back up her thoughts. I guess I thought this DD probably wouldn't understand it ...

But if you want to start to get to grips with the ideas around post-structuralism and hence Judith Butler and stuff, here's a start. (Butler is a really sloppy thinker, and often difficult to follow because of this ... and it's probably best not to take her or her writing too seriously; but, yes, post-structuralism can be tackled on its home turf, so to speak. This will be too brief. But, well, the history is interesting and the ideas surprisingly influential. So here goes.)

I mentioned the "transcendental signified". This is a coinage of Jacques Derrida. Two parts: 'transcendental', from Immanuel Kant and 'signified' from Ferdinand de Saussure (with an important hat-tip to Claude Lévi-Strauss).

Kant specified a form of argument he denoted 'transcendental' (he called his metaphysics 'transcendental idealism', although we won't need to do much with that). A transcendental argument uses the condition-of-the-possibility of something ... like this:
X is a condition of the possibility of Y
Y exists
(Therefore) X exists.

[Kant argued as follows, for instance: (the content of) synthetic a priori judgements (e.g. like those in mathematics) are a condition of the possibility of human experience; we humans certainly have experiences; so some synthetic a priori judgements are certainly well-founded. (That's what Kant called 'The Proper Problem of Pure Reason' solved, in a nutshell. Neat, no? Why it doesn't work? Left as exercise.)]

OK, now 'signified', an important term in semiotics (theories of signs and symbols) within the 'structural linguistics' (as it later became known) of Saussure - or simply 'structuralism', including the work of Lévi-Strauss on societal (rather than, as in Saussure, more narrowly linguistic) structures. (Possibly others too.)

Long story short: signs signify; two parts to this, the signifier and the signified. Enter Jacques Derrida. In order to have linguistic meanings, it seems we need to have signifieds for our signifiers. Otherwise it looks like our signs - including our words - will lack meaning.

The existence of signifieds, then, is a condition of the possibility of us meaning anything by our discourse. The signified is transcendental in that Kantian sense. So it seems, at any rate. But, as Derrida pointed out, Saussurean linguistics (and Lévi-Straussian social anthropology) locate signification only within structure - there seems no actually existing external-to-structure signifieds ('things', 'objects' as Ludwig Wittgenstein called them in his early work). Thus, Derrida concluded, there are no fixed meanings ... meaning is always ineluctably deferred (for which deferral Derrida minted a new word in French: "différance").

Hence Judith Butler and all that slipperiness about meanings and so on. (One aspect of postmodernism.) "What does 'woman' mean? - It's complicated ..." And off we jolly well go.

But there's another possible conclusion to be drawn from the lack of the so-called transcendental signified: perhaps signifieds are not transcendental after all. Perhaps we don't need things or objects for our signifiers to signify, at least in some cases, in order for our discourse to be meaningful. (I mentioned Wittgenstein earlier: he decided he was wrong about 'objects' wrt word meanings, and thoroughly and carefully debunked the whole idea in his later work. Of course lots of the postmodern crew, including Butler, misread Wittgenstein's later work, or simply ignore it, in this regard. Oh well.)

Of course this doesn't say there are no women, anything like that. No, really. The Supreme Court knew - as we all do - what 'woman' and 'sex' mean in everyday life and in law, without there being objects - signifieds - these words - signifiers - signify or refer to. Collapse of post-structuralist slippy-sloppiness and Judith Butler's nonsense.

[I haven't mentioned modus ponens/tollens. These are names of forms of logical argument. Look up "One person's modus ponens is another's modus tollens," to get the point I was making. I've written enough.]

I've over-simplified, but not much. Judith Butler and others do try to muddy the waters, it's true. But hold on to your common sense and you won't go far wrong. If OP's DD really does think Butler successfully justifies nonsense like "TWAW," "sex isn't binary," whatever, it really is just because she doesn't understand what's going on. (DD, I mean. -- Some people think Butler simply a charlatan peddling stuff she knows to be silly, but more charitably, I suspect she doesn't understand either. Who knows? It's obvious nonsense, though, when you read it, the more particularly when you see it in historical context.)

CautiousLurker01 · 22/04/2025 12:42

Sorry, that was an effing long ‘no advice to give’ reply! I am AuDHD… verbosity is one of my major flaws. 🙏

CautiousLurker01 · 22/04/2025 12:41

@PyongyangKipperbang so sorry to read this and have no real advice, having blunder my way through all this over the last few years. In the end we took the path of ‘this is something we will never see eye to eye on, but I respect your right to believe what you do and will always love you and be here for you’ approach. After that I never discussed it in her presence unless she raised the issue - in that case I’d listen, but choose one or two points to counter. eg. “I hear what you’re saying, but I can’t reconcile x or y to my understanding of biology/law etc. It’s not how I understand the legislation” (I have a law qualification) or “that’s not what the textbooks stated when I did the neuroscience module in my Psychology degree, so perhaps I need to revisit the research and see what current scientific research is saying...”

Ie I avoided saying ‘you’re wrong’ or ‘that’s ideological bullshit based on uninformed opinion and immature feelings’ [which was what I was thinking]. I tried to keep it to logic and facts. My DD is 20 any day, and so we are 8yrs into this, and while she would still describe herself as NB, preferring ‘masc’ clothing styles, she does now state that she knows she is a woman, a same sex attracted lesbian, uses she/her pronouns (but Mx on her bank card which I support as I am hoping to have the gender neutral and non maritally-based ‘Dr’ as mine next year). Also has no interest in surgery or hormones any more and even shops in women’s clothing stores occasionally.

I suppose what I am saying is that my instinct was not to back her into a corner so that she would find herself stuck and unable to U-turn without losing face? By keeping emotion out of it, but only responding (honestly yet respectfully) when invited and not imposing my views unsolicited it has given her space to explore and find her way close to a position that is bridgeable from where I sit on this. We had big fights and lots of tears at the start and DH was forced to play the part of neutral party, but by stepping back, keeping things cool, we’ve carefully navigated our relationship around the titanically huge iceberg this issue can be… and managed to remain afloat.

bigboykitty · 22/04/2025 11:59

I'm so sorry to read that you were hijacked like this, @PyongyangKipperbang . It's such a difficult time and there is a lot of very black and white thinking and throwing down of gauntlets going on. It's pretty ridiculous given that all that's happened is a correction of willful misinterpretation of the law.

You've been issued with an ultimatum, effectively. I think @AirsAndSpaces has given some brilliant suggestions. I don't know if I can add anything. I don't think it's okay for your DD to make this announcement, demand your compliance and immediate change in views and issue an ultimatum about what will happen and what it means if you won't comply. I think your response, in the moment, was perfect. I would continue to resist engaging with the ultimatum, I think. It's realistic to take some time to process this new information and to reflect on it. The petulance is reflective of the cult, as others have said. I hope you can trust that the relationship you have with your DD will sustain in the long term. I don't know how long the TRAs can sustain this performative pant-pissing. It's very destructive.

I also wanted to thank you, because I am expecting adult DCs/partners to visit soon and had not considered how this might crop up in the face of the SC ruling. What I've experienced in the past is individuals taking the high ground when others are present, but expressing more nuanced views in one to one conversation. A couple of times when I've referenced previous comments, they've been denied. It's a minefield.

All the SC has done is underline the accurate meaning of the 2010 legislation. The reaction is bonkers.

moveoveralice · 22/04/2025 11:26

"I am begging you to read Judith Butler or any gender socialist and actually understand the issue at hand because until then I want nothing to do with you"

I simply wouldn't stand for this. I would withdraw any financial assistance too and tell her until she wakes up and sees sense, you feel exactly the same.

What I have noticed with this generation is that their sense of entitlement in what we provide is limitless, yet they threaten no contact at the drop of a hat.

Fuck that.

OuterSpaceCadet · 22/04/2025 11:11

If be really tempted to offer to read Butler etc with her - maybe as a regular book group type arrangement reading a bit and discussing as you go?

This way she has a vested interest in keeping communication open with you. And you can also both understand how you each hot to your respective viewpoints. At the end, even if your logical takedown hasn't changed her mind, hopefully she will be able to see why you think what you think and that it's not borne of bigotry, as she's been groomed to believe.

On the subject of grooming, groomers aim to create distance between the vulnerable person and anyone who could protect them, be they ideologically driven or paedos. So another approach would be for you to reframe (to yourself) that your fight is against them and against their aims, rather than against your daughter. So every action you take will be about nourishing the relationship between you and your daughter, staying close and keeping talking.

Evolutionarygoals · 22/04/2025 10:09

@dlob I think you're probably playing Butler at her own game here buti would also appreciate a clear language translation. With post structuralism I can't shake the feeling the language used is designed to be confusing to the lay person - maybe they feel more intellectual if only a few people can understand them...

EvelynBeatrice · 22/04/2025 10:07

It is standard type emotional blackmail, manipulation and threat of shunning that one sees in all cults. It might be worth reading about cults and deprogramming. Healthy movements and belief systems are robust enough to entertain challenge and never seek to distance adherents from those that love them the best.

It also might be worthwhile focussing on the no one will ever love you more than me and you don’t get many people in your life who would take a bullet for you type thing. Also ask her if she shares the opinions likes and dislikes of every one of her friends. Does she know any Muslims/ Hindus/ Jewish people? Can’t she accept that two different people mean two different opinions?. This is adult life. The ability to recognise that other people we love and like can hold very different opinions from us and that’s ok.

Tell her she can yell and scare you into lying and professing opinions you don’t hold under the threat of not seeing her, but what will she gain? It’s like forcible religious conversion.

MadameBethune · 22/04/2025 09:40

@dlob I really want to understand your point 2 but I don't...

edited to add perhaps that was the point?

dlob · 22/04/2025 09:24

Read Judith Butler, OP, as suggested ... Point out two things to your DD:

  1. No such thing as determinate gender identity, Butler agrees.
  2. Like many post-structuralists, Butler takes the wrong conclusion from the lack - non-existence - of any transcendental signified (e.g. of the signifier 'woman'). (Essentially thinking modus ponens) she takes this lack to destroy meanings when in fact (going the modus tollens route, perhaps we might say) it makes more sense to deny the transcendentality - the supposed (but actually false) requirement for such a signified to allow meaning to be extant.

If your DD understands this, she'll see how

  1. The Supreme Court ruling could not have been any other, and
  2. It was always common sense that 'woman' means woman, and that being a woman is biology-based.

If your DD doesn't understand, you can simply emphasise her lack of understanding tout court.

Either way, tell her to get a grip and stop being so silly.

AirsAndSpaces · 22/04/2025 08:40

I’m sorry you are going through this. Others will disagree with this . My suggestion is that as she knows your views when she brings it up again you say you have thought about what she has said and she understands what she is saying. If she asks if you have changed your views say that attitude change is a process, she’s had time to think about it but it as new to you and as we age our brains aren’t as elastic as they were but please could she stick with you, you are trying and understand the points she is making.

You are playing the long game here and trying to preserve your relationship whilst dealing with events outside your control. You get put in a difficult situation with your child who has access to very practised people online who give their advice which in my experience amounts to asking would you prefer it of they killed themself if you try to state your case and it differs to theirs in any way.

Do your best to keep off the subject, ‘hi love’ is very useful and if you are used to discussing a variety of issues go for something like Trump if you both agree he is an arsehole.

Be aware that anything you say that is deemed contentious once it leaves your mouth is then out there forever. Focus on the day to day living stuff and if there are any shared interests put them centre stage or find something new, if it is something like food that features heavily in day to day life so much the better and then see if you can extend it a bit into growing herbs and maybe some fruit and veg if that’s something you could see yourself doing. Take up running, theatre, cinema, comedy clubs, anything you can think of.

This will be a huge shock at the moment and it will probably feel nothing will ever be the same again but time moves on and things feel a bit more normal whatever that is. It’s often difficult to navigate that transition of your relationship with them into adulthood and you now have an extra complication to get through.

Some will read this and say I am totally wrong and that is completely fine but I would be very wary about who you listen to. It’s all theoretical until you actually have to live it.

BoeotianNightmare · 19/04/2025 13:45

So sorry OP this is awful for you and you've done nothing wrong.

PyongyangKipperbang · 19/04/2025 13:42

EmeraldRoulette · 19/04/2025 11:13

@PyongyangKipperbang did this come completely out of the blue, from your side?

Yes, amd my other DD was obviously very surprised at this news too even though they are very close.

She has always struggled with fitting in and knowing her place in the world. She was ok until about...14 ish. Since then there have been several things that she defintely was, until she wasnt iykwim. I think she just doesnt want to be her, and believes that changing her gender will achieve that. "I am not happy as this, so I must be that". Personally I think it is a MH issue, but obviously any mention of that, no matter how gently, is met with anger and derision.

OP posts:
EmeraldRoulette · 19/04/2025 11:13

@PyongyangKipperbang did this come completely out of the blue, from your side?