Have you ever mistaken a woman for a man?

I got mistaken for a man from behind once because I had extremely short hair, was wearing a leather jacket & was sat down. As soon as I turned round they apologised

and do you know what??? (And stay with me here) nothing happened! I laughed, they were embarrassed & then laughed & then we both got on with our day because we were adults and not 10 year olds and understood that ‘mis sexing’ someone is not actually literal violence requiring one to take massive offence and retire to your fainting couch

My friend who is 100% biologically female is constantly mistaken for a man. She's very tall 6 foot 3 and is more built than most with a flat chest. She's had so much hassle over the years about it. She's now 31 and it's been constant the last 15 years or so of her life.

I've met a few young transwomen and transmen through a DEI thing I was involved in through work. It was clear to me what sex they were - and clear what sex the non-binary twenty somethings were too. These were people who had volunteered for this DEI forum, so I may have met transwoman and transmen in other contexts who passed, but I think it's unlikely to be honest.

People have an amazing ability to recognise the differences in people, and the sex of a person is coded into this.

The examples of ‘misgendering’ above though, can mainly be explained by common assumption : if a child is waiting to use a male facility( barbers) with another male child, the barber probably just assumes she is male, because he isn’t looking that closely at her, and certainly ( hopefully) not attempting to assess her ‘sexually’.

If someone is uncertain about someone’s sex (as a stranger , at first sight) the default would be to use ‘Sir / Monsieur / Signor,’ because a woman is less likely to make a fuss about being mis gendered , whereas a man might react with less tolerance 🤼‍♀️.

Mr Menno has a brilliant video ‘It’s Ma’am’ which probably makes my point more emphatically.

I work with a f-m trans that has had top surgery and alot of facial hair... They've been called a man quite a few times (obviously that's what they want, but what happens now that they aren't allowed in men's toilet but equally not exactly welcome in woman's?)

No, I haven’t. But I know several women who have been mistaken for men - these are women who’ve had a double mastectomy due to cancer.

I've been mistaken for a man on a few occasions. I wear a work uniform of trousers and polo shirt, but I have short hair and a big nose, so I'm not pretty. For a lot of people trousers + short hair = man. When I mentioned it on here (I was quite upset at the time, it just seems to ram home how unpretty I am, even though now at over 60 I'm not quite as bothered) I was told to wear more make up...

Oops. I've just realised I've posted on the wrong thread. This particular post was meant for another which is discussing whether you 'can tell'
Apologies if I've derailed

'I have a private theory that it seems plausible to young people who (a) don’t really have any idea or think about the fact that for large parts of the twentieth century, most women wore their hair short and many did not wear makeup or particularly “gendered” clothes, so they have some kind of idea that it is terribly “gender non conforming” to have short hair and not wear all the contouring/long swishy hair/overdone nails stuff they associate with social media-influenced “femininity”. They are too deep in the present moment to realise that many/most women went about all of the 70s, 80s and 90s in jeans or slacks and an anorak and a short haircut and still weren’t assumed to be either men or somehow making a radical statement about “gender”. They simply don’t understand that for most of the postwar period, mostly only very young women had long hair, and married or older women generally uniformly had short hair styles'

@nyancatdays I have 2 teenage daughters. They were shocked to find out I had very short hair in the late 80s/early 90s. They don't understand why I chose to have short hair, none of their female friends do. They were surprised to see my school photo where the girls had a range of different hairstyles. I also dressed in what they would consider a very masculine way even though I mostly wore jeans, a plain top and Dr. Martens which I would consider quite neutral.

No, I don't think so. I have seen a few pictures online of transmen who genuinely appear to pass, but I suspect even they might not irl.

Yes, and I've also encountered a lot of people I have been confused about. There was a very muscular person in a women's changing room with me who had male or unisex clothing, short hair and no breasts. Considering their height (under 5ft5), I decided they were probably a woman or transman but I really wasn't sure. I would never challenge or report someone unless they were actually exposing male genitals or behaving in an inappropriate way because I would hate to challenge a masculine looking woman or trans man.

No, our brains are programmed to recognise the sexes based on facial proportions. This is why facial surgery is performed on those who want the whole kit and kerboodle when transitioning from male to female.

@Frowningprovidence tradesmen? 😁

I once mostook a teenage boy for a teenage girl. I apologised profusely to him & his mum, of course. He had very long blond hair to his waist.

Yes it does happen.

But the female you describe is someone who has surgically altered their body and takes cross sex hormones to produce secondary sexual characteristics. They are attempting to ‘deceive’ or ‘pass’, no one is mistaking them for a man and then ‘realising’ that they are a woman, which is what I believe the OP is discussing.

This query is often used as a stalking horse for men who wish to use women’s facilities( not this time). It implies that women will now be mobbing any woman who does not fit the transgender ideology of female appearance if they see them in a single sex space. Highly unlikely IMHO, just another example of innate ‘difference’, in this case, aggression v. Fear as a reaction to the apparently threatening.

Yes, I have. Mainly older women. It's a quick double take to sort it out.

I actually also think tradesmen are more convincing than any transwomen I have personally met.

No. My androgynous-dressing mother never got mistaken for anything other than female either during her bald chemo stage, or post double mastectomy, though she is quite short.

I see a few ( walk past a college) and the truth is, the only ‘male marker’ is facial hair. If they didn’t have their moustaches and beard there would be nothing else ‘male’ about them. Hands, jaw, brow, gait, size, make them very obviously (troubled) young women. I do fear for their longer term health and happiness.

That’s interesting that she was frequently challenged. Most women I know say they hate confrontation so even if they saw someone very masculine-presenting in a ladies loo I doubt very much they’d say anything at all for fear of an argument or worse.
In fact I can’t remember ever witnessing someone being challenged in a loo or changing room.

No I haven’t and to be honest I feel like it won’t create any issues in public bathrooms so I don’t know why there is so much focus on that. In places such as workplaces where women know a person is a man for example and have to share a bathroom or changing room with them, this will now hopefully prevent that from happening.

Not me but my college lecturer did it to a woman on a course we were on. She went purple when she realised

I think these are the TW that people often picture when they think of TW. But as you say, it's highly likely more obvious in real life and even if they do "pass" they're in the minority.

@AliasGrace47 I think the hairstyle and that jacket contribute a lot to that. I've just covered the hair up with my thumb and it makes a difference. And yes of course if most women of that era wore completely different clothing and hairstyles, Missy could be easily confused with a man, not so much these days

I have seen a few young TW online recently that I could have mistaken for real women. But they had lip and cheek fillers which softened the face, lashes, and the heavy contoured make up that many young women favour these days.
Still, as it's online it's more than likely they have used filters too. It's probably easier for younger people to pass than older men, particularly if they've taken puberty blockers.
Saying that a friend's son is trans and he's very boyish looking with premature male pattern baldness and no amount of make up makes any difference.