To be annoyed by tra hyperbole around supreme court judgment

TW are men - they have never had women’s rights

Quite especially as ppl who feel uncomfortable about that don’t seem to be particularly bothered about trans women and their allies holding up signs like this

I mean if women celebrating makes them uncomfortable, surely the idea that ppl who disagree with you should be given a DIY labotomy with a knife should have them absolutely outraged?

Cis women always had their rights. They just wanted to take them away from women not like them.

Watching the women celebrating the news on TV made me feel a bit uncomfortable even though there are elements of it I agree with.

I would suggest that being uncomfortable seeing women celebrate their rights being upheld is internalised misogyny in action

In all ‘groups’ of people, there is a majority that just get on quietly with their lives and usually a much smaller number of the same group who shout loudest and they are the only ones that people hear. Isn’t this the case again where the majority of trans women are probably incredibly worried and have absolutely no intention of drawing attention to themselves at all. They just want to live their lives and be accepted. Watching the women celebrating the news on TV made me feel a bit uncomfortable even though there are elements of it I agree with. On the other hand there are some militant members of the trans community who make life difficult for the other trans women and don’t give a fair representation of the group as a whole.

I just think we need to be mindful of this before getting caught up in more hatred of a particular group of people.

Reading the posts above, I think it's worth stressing that this isn't about 'bad trans' or even 'good trans'.

It's about males being male. It's that simple.

It's double standards for trans people to go on about wanting their privacy but have no regard for the privacy of women.

And it neglects the scenarios where sex remains relevant to trans people in various ways, because they don't cease to be male/female upon transition because biology.

There are many ways in which the ruling is in their own interests in terms of equality and it protects their own rights. The fact they don't understand it does work for them in some areas, frankly isn't my problem or for me to explain.

Above all the Equality Act is about Equality. And this seems to be the biggest fundamental thing they seem to have difficulty understanding. Well apart from reality.

Yet again we have a man, telling women that we have to accept men telling women that men are women.

So so tiresome.

After several days of feeling happy about the judgment, I've been talking to trans friends over the weekend and now feel quite sad. They are doubling down on their beliefs and feel persecuted because they have not been forced on everyone. They blame shadowy powerful fascist forces, for court cases brought by ordinary women. It's so psychologically unhealthy, and my attempts to reassure elicit responses more appropriate to finding out that one's friend is secretly a witch or an alien. This piece illustrates it:

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/supreme-court-ruling-response_uk_6800fa33e4b0e7e6a3f52072

The other side of the argument is so incoherent and emotional it's laughable.
DS1, who works in a bar was sent a work WhatsApp inviting staff to the protest yesterday. It was to protest " anti trans legislation passed in parliament ".
They don't even know what they're protesting.

@Brainworm I also listened and she is consistent in repeating this, it is so important. She does it brilliantly. To me it is clear she understands and takes the time to listen carefully to the trans persons points, but she always makes her point professionally and, I think, respectfully.

Joanna Cherry also made the same point very strongly on the Iain Dale LBC show on 16 April. Well worth listening to the whole session with Joanna (with Freda Wallace), Joanna was magnificent I thought.

Why would men be afraid of using men's toilets? Surely that's a man problem for men to cope with?

What has it got to do with women?

I’ve interacted on social media with a couple of TW, in comments in a mutual friends post. I didn’t know these people but they were following the same fact-free script as outlined here. I tried discussing facts but they could only talk about their own feelings, and how they are so upset one of them was contemplating taking their own life.

It just reinforced my view that many trans people are deeply vulnerable people who don’t necessarily have the strongest grip on reality.

What a brilliant article 😂

Whilst I agree with the Supreme Court ruling I can see the "logic" of the trans anger at it.

On a lot of issues in society there is a view that being the minority group automatically means you are the victimised group regardless of any actual victimisation.

Secondly if you are male and white then you are at the very bottom of the victimhood pyramid. But by becoming a trans woman you can instantly go right to the top of the victimhood pyramid.

'cis women spewing hatred' - I think I've seen those very words on at least one other thread. Not very original ,Micaela64 .
Or maybe because there was no hatred being spewed on the other threads, you thought you'd have a go at this one?

The way I see it, trans people can feel whatever they want to about the SC ruling, but it's the rallying against an objective decision of the highest, and politically independent, court in the land that's weird.

The court reaffirmed something that had been the law all along, it didn't change any law, it didn't take anybody's rights away, but the trans reaction is as if it was some great catastrophe, like they were being targeted unfairly, or something really bad like that.

Demonstrating, with a fringe of misogyny and violence, against a ruling that 'woman' means, and has always meant 'biological woman' is such an odd reaction - how weird to be demonstrating against a statement of fact!
Next weekend flat-earthers rallying outside the Royal Geographical Society?

Unfortunately EA2010 also introduced the protected characteristic of gender reassignment. It would have been so much better for society if those with gender dysphoria had just been able to invoke the PC of disability & the AGP crowd wouldn't have got a look in. Unfortunately I think that the genie is out the bottle so we are stuck with GR as a PC.

This law dates back to 1975. The Sex Discrimination Act of that became part of EA10 which unified various discrimination laws 😀

Think it’s time you went to bed.

I've known trans people since the 1980s. I used to be live and let live until trans women pushed the cotton ceiling and the idea that sex was much less important than gender. Many wanted to erase the female sex class even though my own life experiences have been defined by being a woman. (None of them share those experiences.) They can fuck off. Why should I respect them when they don't respect me or my experiences one bit?

Now, the more trans women I get to know, the less I like trans people. The last few that I knew relatively well did pervy things like rub their groin against mine when they hugged me goodbye or show off their titties even though they knew I have cptsd from sexual abuse. Quite a few seem to have Cluster B personality disorders, which I try to avoid if at all possible. (Not all trans ppl. Some are lovely. But many are not.)

Most of the people here know trans people. If you read here at all you would know that. Maybe we have objections bc we know them. If you want women to respect trans people, convince trans people to respect women and really listen to our experiences. Until they do, they can fuck off.

Not a cis woman

You mean listening to messages like this soothing one from today in London?

ETA this is not my opinion. It’s an image displayed by a trans person or ally

I just listened to one trans person shout “give us wombs and titties”….that was enlightening.

I know. Ridiculous to use cis and then lecture us about us things we weren’t doing - but which are the equivalent of using cis. What a numpty

The word is woman. Just one type of woman. No cis needed.

You do realise we were here chatting amongst ourselves. We’re not telling anyone how to think about anything or spewing hatred - which you’d know if you read any of the posts. In fact it’s one of your comrades who was on here earlier saying horrible things about the erasure of trans people and I had to report them for hate speech. I repeatedly try to listen to trans opinion and comments to understand but all I hear is rhetoric and vitriol. Why are you on mumsnet if you don’t want a debate? Don’t you know that unsubstantiated twaddle doesn’t wash here. Best head off back to Reddit - we arent your mum so arent obliged to mollify you

ETA if you want an argument then go pick a fight with Stonewall. They took millions in public funds and failed to get trans people safe dignified facilities while lying to you all. Worse they couldn’t be bothered to intervene in the SC ruling on your behalf. Point your outrage where it’s deserved