"Trans women ARE biological women"

But that’s like saying someone isn’t human because they have a disability. I’m assuming TRAs don’t want to be viewed as attacking people with a disability

That's such a daft argument, isn't it? Like trying to argue that we shouldn't provide disabled people with ramps, wheelchairs, talking books etc because it "reduces them to their disability" to acknowledge their needs.

It’s so annoying. I’ve had women (allies of the trans communities) telling me that wanting female only spaces ‘reduces women to their genitalia’. It’s so disingenuous. People have got to the point where they will argue black is white in the pursuit of ‘being kind’.

I can’t imagine that many of these women have daughters.

This is a bit of a diversion. I being of a religious persuasion used to go on a website where there were interesting discussions, but when this subject came up I felt uncomfortable. In a place where it was considered inappropriate to use insulting language, there was one sort of insult actively encouraged, TERF, and allied terms. I avoided such threads at first, but eventually dropped the place as people I had liked revealed their dark side. And I had discovered Mumsnet, and normal people. Oddly Mumsnetters being rude about religion doesn't affect me like that.
I have just paid a brief visit to see how they responded to the Supreme Court ruling. Fuming is a mild word. It was like being in a parallel universe, with absolutely no understanding of women - and a lot of contributers are women, so churches' historical gynophobia can't explain it. They will keep fighting to return to what they think of as the status quo. All the rights the trans have lost. Despite quoting the bits of the judgement which explained how trans are still protected.

One called this place Prosecco Stormfront! Really. Has she ever been here? With the Tunnocks and all.

I'm not going back there ever. I feel much more comfortable here.I needed to spill that or try to sleep with the hatred wasing over me.

But that’s like saying someone isn’t human because they have a disability. I’m assuming TRAs don’t want to be viewed as attacking people with a disability

what nonsense could be the response to ‘sex is obviously binary because there’s no other way to produce babies’?

Is that why pee from a bitch kills the grass?
But dog pee doesn't?

Or at least someone once told me that. Never been a caine owner.

And male p*ss smells! No getting over that chaps

Welcome to the den of sin and wrongthink, you filthy heretic!

Have a teacake.

Is that why pee from a bitch kills the grass?
But dog pee doesn't?

Or at least someone once told me that. Never been a caine owner.

It's great for compost, though. Female urine has more oestrogen in it than is good for compost but the nitrogen from the dudes is very welcome.

I just want to say this post has legitimately made me shed a tear, I’ve been on the WYOO board of another parenting forum for the last 2 days arguing for women’s sex based rights.

I’ve been called a bigot and a transphobe and as a lone voice it has taken its toll. No matter what logical and evidenced reasons I’ve put forward for my position they have been completely dismissed as being from transphobic sources or any crimes committed by M to F trans were actually just committed by CIS males.

It’s been nice to come on here and feel like I’m not going crazy. I’ve never doubted my position but god it’s been so depressing that all these women want to give away our daughters sex based rights with so little thought.

For the millionth time…
Sex is binary (yes, even in medicine). There is no need to talk about chromosomal sex, endocrine sex etc etc. Humans are mammals whose reproductive systems develop embryologically along one of two pathways depending on whether they are going to be producers of small mobile gametes or large immobile gametes.
We inherit DNA from both parents. For convenience this is stored as chromosomes. From our mothers that will be an X chromosome. From our fathers an X or Y. The presence of absence of the Y instructs the route of embryological development from a bipotential gonad (can become either ovary or testes) to either Mullerian route (no Y, becomes ovary) or Wolffian route (Y present, becomes testes). Embryological development proceeds and after puberty sexual maturity is reached but the process starts at conception and the development of gonadal tissues, hormones, everything follows on from there.

For a small number of people there is an issue in the pathway. Perhaps part of the Y chromosome gets attached to an X chromosome during meiosis (cellular replication after fertilisation). Perhaps there is an extra chromosome or a missing chromosome. Perhaps there is a failure of gonadal tissue to form properly. Perhaps the hormone receptors or the enzymes that act on those hormones don’t act properly. All of those things mean that in a tiny number of cases sex is not as clear as xx/xy or hormones, and that is precisely why that is not how we categorise sex. It is about which gamete the body is designed to produce. Failure to be able to do so does not mean those people are some new type of human or new sex. It means there’s been an issue in the process and things have turned out differently. There are other conditions where this happens (other trisomies, non disjunction etc) but they happen on chromosomes not linked to sex so the features are different. We don’t say people with Down Syndrome, Edward Syndrome or Patau Syndrome are somehow a new type of human because to do so would be both offensive and absurd.
To make the same judgement on sex is also nonsensical and absurd but it’s been used that way because some people for a whole variety of reasons don’t want to be the sex they are and are unhappy that that can’t change so we get this bizarre discussion about chromosomal sex or hormonal sex as if these things exist separate from each other and have anything to do with what “gender” someone may or may not identify as.

It's great for compost, though. Female urine has more oestrogen in it than is good for compost but the nitrogen from the dudes is very welcome.

And male p*ss smells! No getting over that chaps