"Trans women ARE biological women"

I don't think anyone said that "biology" is binary. Sex, however, is indeed binary - there are two and only two sexes.

If you don't think that is the case, please tell us what the third (fourth, fiftth?) sex is.

One of the replies to the Dawkins comment:

Being an atheist and evolutionary biologist won’t necessarily lead to someone accepting us! As an atheist but not a biologist I assure you he is just a deranged hater, and an ignorant hater who is being blinded by hate before facts!

He knows but he won’t admit!

I kind of love this. They know they can't realistically claim Richard fucking Dawkins doesn't understand biology, so they claim he secretly knows that men are biologically female but is pretending they aren't. Because of his "deranged hatred".

I do feel sorry for those who are transgender. There is a focus here on trans women but trans men are in the same situation, they feel they were born in a body that doesn't match their brain.
Some of the females in this thread haven't thought through the effect of this supreme court ruling.

Trans men were born into a biological female body. Many trans men look like biological males, but they are not biological males. They will be welcome in women's safe spaces, as a result of being biologically female at birth. However you will judge them based on how they look and abuse them for being in biological born female changing rooms, despite the fact they will be complying with current society which dictates there are only 2 types of people, those born in one of the two biological sexes.

Therefore you still won't be happy, because you are now going to be reporting people who are doing nothing wrong and using the correct born biological sex changing rooms, toilets, and safe spaces yet do not 'look' how you expect them to. Maybe we should stop judging people by how they look or appear and instead look at their actions and intent of their actions.

I have my doubts about the worthwhileness of engaging in batshit crazy arguments about biology.

It will never be the case that UK society at large or legislators will consider there to be more or less than 2 sexes or agree that it is difficult to categorise people. When most people entertain arguments about chromosomes not being visible, or mastectomies, hysterectomies and infertility undermining sex classification, they rapidly return to sanity once concrete examples set them straight.

TRAs will continue to flog arguments that sex is neither binary nor immutable as they get buy in from those who are desperate to undermine logical arguments for excluding males from provision that is only legally available to females. It won’t pass muster beyond this select group.

TRAs really need to start focusing on campaigning for provision that supports the dignity and safety of trans people and doesn’t require women’s single sex provision to become mixed sex, the sooner. In reality, this is only likely to happen once they accept that single sex provision has no role in validating identity.

After years of rape threats, punch a terf banners and being told we are all prehistoric dinosaurs who hord rights and will die out soon, because we are a tiny minority.... Enjoy our erasure and so on?

Not a chance of being quiet.

Oh wow.

How thick do you have to be to be surprised that an evolutionary biologist doesn't believe humans can change sex?

Very well put, for any lurkers feeling puzzled by word-cloud obfuscation of gravity and biology.

Gravity can be mathmatically modelled - it doesn’t work at extremes. I can tell you how fast I can fall off a building - but at micro scales it doesnt work. We don’t understand gravity fully. Only in the general sense.

This one killed me as well… them wondering why an evolutionary biologist would not agree with their stance.

like - are you serious? They are so far removed from reality

I think you're being unfair to the TRA movement. They've long since outgrown mumbo jumbo and risen to the level of mumbo pocus.

That. You cannot change your sex, if you are born a woman or a man (not intersex which is different), you remain a biological woman or man.

You may have treatment and/or surgery to 'become' the opposite sex and it's fine to call yourself, and live as, that but the fact remains that you are biologically as you were born.

I'm not gloating. Me and many other women are fucking furious. Furious that we had to fight all this shite and furious that now we've been proven right, self righteous wee arseholes are recycling arguments from years ago (I mean, an article from 1973, what the fuck) and we're having to do the whole tedious bullshite again, lest we be accused of 'gloating'.

We've pandered to this bullshit for far too long.

In biology overall, sex is not defined by chromosomes or hormonal profiles or genitalia or fondness for lipstick. Male = producer of small motile gametes. Female = producer of large immotile gametes. Two sexes. That's it.

In mammals, the sex you become is determined at conception and thereafter is immutable. Very occasionally, there are anomalies in meiosis or in subsequent embryonic development which can lead to VSDs/DSDs. Or sometimes, other conditions can cause changes in the reproductive system. This does not negate the fact that sex is binary. Furthermore, DSDs are against either a male or female background.

Regardless of the wordcloudy obfuscation, none of this is relevant to whether persons-of-gender are entitled to invade the opposite sex's spaces. I would put good money on a bet that only the tiniest minutest minusculest percentage of persons-of-gender are in possession of any of the obfuscatory whataboutery conditions that we're being snowed with. But I would be happy for those making extraordinary claims to deserve access to medically prove their qualification: are they?

Predominately based on you are male or other.

You've jumped the shark here. Other??

So you believe that you know better than the UKs leading expert on human reproduction

No.

Ha one expert says it so it must be true. Biology is not binary - we tell ourselves this because its two nice neat categories. Predominately based on you are male or other.

That made me laugh, too. Almost as mysterious as the way so many scientists accept evolution and gravity 🤔

Absolutely none of that means biological sex is a social construct, or indeed has anything to do with trans people.

Where was all this mumbo jumbo about sex being an incredibly difficult concept during the zillions of years that women were being excluded from universities, government, property holding, voting and so on, and in many places still are? And how, if it's so complicated and difficult, do the TRAs know which spaces are the female ones? And how do they know, having identified these spaces, which group of people they want to sit down and shut up for which other group of people?

It shows. You are bringing the same arguments that were presented here all those years ago and which were systematically shot down with links from peer reviewed scientific (and accepted by experts) papers.

I highly recommend you do a bit more reading before making more of these statements. It might save you some embarrassment.

They’re not though. Scientifically their chromosomes define biological sex

Their former comrade Dickie Seymour has also been holding forth on genetics and chromosomes. He's got an ology, you know.

Okay, it's sociology...

Oh shit, I had no idea.

Reconsidering everything.

'Expert' doing a LOT of heavy lifting there. Expert in what, shit hot takes and mansplaining?