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Original poster

"Trans women ARE biological women"

832 replies

TangenitalContrivance · 18/04/2025 10:09

I see this argument and comment more and more the last few weeks and hugely over the last 3 days.

For example:

https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1k1tliv/trans_women_are_biological_women/

This statement, and the comments underneath it absolutely baffle me.

The approach, one that I am sure will only work with a minority of the people who said TWAW, is to undermine the definition of words, yet again, and deliberately cloud the water when it comes to speaking clearly and using terms that everyone agrees with

I have seen it said in more places than Reddit however, and by respected people

OP posts:
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24
TheWayOfTheWorld · 18/04/2025 17:21

OllyBJolly · 18/04/2025 11:23

Geez - TWAW all over my LinkedIn pages. There is a brilliantly eloquent guy who is obviously spending all his time refuting this and very patiently explaining on every post that sex is biologically determined and no, the Supreme Court judgement has not taken away any rights from trans people .

Do you think this ridiculous reaction will die down in time?

Mine too. Very tedious. Is the eloquent guy Gerald the barrister chap?

TheNinny · 18/04/2025 17:18

Transwoman I know have recently been describing themselves as of female’ sex and so therefore they are a biological woman. Which they know isn’t true either.

Kucinghitam · 18/04/2025 17:17

BiologicalRobot · 18/04/2025 17:17

Why are you banging on about DSDs which have absolutely nothing to do with being transgender? One is sex based, the other is gender.

Edit - oh fuck, I missed a bit
we like categories things - mammals share similar characteristics - but when you get down to fish its wild - they can look the same and have totally different characteristics.

please go back to school

Edited
Show quote history

To try and obfuscate.

BiologicalRobot · 18/04/2025 17:17

user1492538376 · 18/04/2025 17:14

Winston focuss on one aspect fertility - most genetics expert disagree. We don’t understand genetics fully - people with dominant brown eyes gene dont always have brown eyes - its more complicated than that. That’s my point - XY gene doesnt always equal male - its much more complicated than that.

The definition is just a definition - I’m not pro trans - its just there are things us humans still do not understand - we like categories things - mammals share similar characteristics - but when you get down to fish its wild - they can look the same and have totally different characteristics.

Why are humans different? Political, social, moral reasons - we are not special or easily defined. Just because its accepted doesn't make it true.

Edited
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Why are you banging on about DSDs which have absolutely nothing to do with being transgender? One is sex based, the other is gender.

Edit - oh fuck, I missed a bit
we like categories things - mammals share similar characteristics - but when you get down to fish its wild - they can look the same and have totally different characteristics.

please go back to school

spannasaurus · 18/04/2025 17:16

Are these the trans people I should be getting to know?

https://terfisaslur.com/

"Trans women ARE biological women"
Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/04/2025 17:16

Reddit is full of opinionated, clueless men (mostly) obviously there are some women there too, but any politics thread skews towards the male perspective. The worst thing about it is the censorship though, these men are happy to fart out their nonsensical pronouncements because they are rarely challenged, because any hint of “transphobia” and you get sanctioned. Many mods are TRAs or TRAs adjacent. Some of them extremely problematic men.

user1492538376 · 18/04/2025 17:14

Leafstamp · 18/04/2025 16:52

I don't think anyone said that "biology" is binary. Sex, however, is indeed binary - there are two and only two sexes.

If you don't think that is the case, please tell us what the third (fourth, fiftth?) sex is.

Show quote history

Winston focuss on one aspect fertility - most genetics expert disagree. We don’t understand genetics fully - people with dominant brown eyes gene dont always have brown eyes - its more complicated than that. That’s my point - XY gene doesnt always equal male - its much more complicated than that.

The definition is just a definition - I’m not pro trans - its just there are things us humans still do not understand - we like categories things - mammals share similar characteristics - but when you get down to fish its wild - they can look the same and have totally different characteristics.

Why are humans different? Political, social, moral reasons - we are not special or easily defined. Just because its accepted doesn't make it true.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/04/2025 17:13

BigHeadBertha · 18/04/2025 16:59

I'd encourage anyone who doesn't know any transpeople well or hasn't read a lot about their experience, as well as the many ways someone's gender and sex can fail to line up with each other well, to realize that you don't know anything about it at all. Your opinions are based on ignorance.

Again, if your opinion is merely something you pulled out of your own bottom, with no education or personal knowledge of the actual issue, you should realize that's what it is and stop strongly and loudly defending it.

Loud stupidity is unappealing.

An intelligent person doesn't need this explained to them. Their first response, in the above situation, would be to say, "I don't know." Not, "My foolish and massive outrage is the same as actually knowing a thing about it. Here is a dim-witted cliche' to back that up!"

Doing this would hugely improve the world.

You're welcome.

Edited

Why? What do you imagine finding out more about trans people's experiences would change?

My sex based rights aren't conditional on how trans people feel.

The Supreme Court judgment confirms that, the matter is now settled and everyone is going to have to accept it.

Leafstamp · 18/04/2025 17:12

zackmills · 18/04/2025 16:50

I do feel sorry for those who are transgender. There is a focus here on trans women but trans men are in the same situation, they feel they were born in a body that doesn't match their brain.
Some of the females in this thread haven't thought through the effect of this supreme court ruling.

Trans men were born into a biological female body. Many trans men look like biological males, but they are not biological males. They will be welcome in women's safe spaces, as a result of being biologically female at birth. However you will judge them based on how they look and abuse them for being in biological born female changing rooms, despite the fact they will be complying with current society which dictates there are only 2 types of people, those born in one of the two biological sexes.

Therefore you still won't be happy, because you are now going to be reporting people who are doing nothing wrong and using the correct born biological sex changing rooms, toilets, and safe spaces yet do not 'look' how you expect them to. Maybe we should stop judging people by how they look or appear and instead look at their actions and intent of their actions.

Maya Forstater has addressed this point here: https://x.com/MForstater/status/1913185931290460333

Main points being:

  • no one is forcing them to use the female space
  • they have made extreme life choices to look like a man. They need to accept that those life choices come with the possibility of being challenged if they enter a women's space.

Lots of people have to plan ahead regarding accessing public toilets for example. Women who disguise themselves as men may be one such group of people who need to do this - eg find out if there is a mixed sex facility.

https://x.com/MForstater/status/1913185931290460333

miraxxx · 18/04/2025 17:10

BigHeadBertha · 18/04/2025 17:06

It's good that you looked in a mirror and recognized yourself there.

More people should do that, rather than activating their childish "outrage" again and tossing out another dim insult.

It's okay. Now you can do better. :)

Edited
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Jury award for the passive aggressive be-kind scold. Top notch effort. Run along now.

BiologicalRobot · 18/04/2025 17:10

BigHeadBertha · 18/04/2025 17:06

It's good that you looked in a mirror and recognized yourself there.

More people should do that, rather than activating their childish "outrage" again and tossing out another dim insult.

It's okay. Now you can do better. :)

Edited
Show quote history

Ha ha.

We've frequently been told to educate ourselves over here. So we did.

We are probably better informed than you. Women's (the biological kind) legal rights have been clarified so why are so many people (men?) upset about that 🤔

Edit - Ooooo you edited your post to add in childish insults.

miraxxx · 18/04/2025 17:09

BigHeadBertha · 18/04/2025 16:59

I'd encourage anyone who doesn't know any transpeople well or hasn't read a lot about their experience, as well as the many ways someone's gender and sex can fail to line up with each other well, to realize that you don't know anything about it at all. Your opinions are based on ignorance.

Again, if your opinion is merely something you pulled out of your own bottom, with no education or personal knowledge of the actual issue, you should realize that's what it is and stop strongly and loudly defending it.

Loud stupidity is unappealing.

An intelligent person doesn't need this explained to them. Their first response, in the above situation, would be to say, "I don't know." Not, "My foolish and massive outrage is the same as actually knowing a thing about it. Here is a dim-witted cliche' to back that up!"

Doing this would hugely improve the world.

You're welcome.

Edited

I agree loud stupidity is unappealing.

SionnachRuadh · 18/04/2025 17:08

I remember an early episode of Friends where Phoebe said she didn't believe in gravity, but she still didn't follow that up by saying men belong in women's single sex spaces.

BigHeadBertha · 18/04/2025 17:06

BiologicalRobot · 18/04/2025 17:04

Holds up a mirror

You're welcome.

Show quote history

It's good that you looked in a mirror and recognized yourself there.

More people should do that, rather than activating their childish "outrage" again and tossing out another dim insult.

It's okay. Now you can do better. :)

Brainworm · 18/04/2025 17:05

Hwi · 18/04/2025 16:24

We all know what the truth is, however, no need to gloat after the ruling. They have had a massive shock with this ruling, they have been told the government lied to them, for years. They are in a particularly vulnerable state now, those people. Let us all stop gloating.

I haven’t seen any gloating. I have seen celebratation, and why would there not be? For many woman, the ruling has taken a lot of effort and sacrifice, which has finally paid off.

It baffles me as to why people are attributing the celebration as being about trans peoples’ ‘loss’ (perceived loss- as the ‘rights’ didn’t exist in the first place). It’s a celebration of the clarification that woman have the right to female only provision and services.

I have empathy for trans people for whom this clarification changed what they understood to be their ‘rights’. I think urgent action is needed to ensure that suitable provision is put in place so they can navigate society safely and with dignity. Hopefully, they can gain inspiration from the suffrage moment that delivered this for women. I’ll happily support their efforts.

viques · 18/04/2025 17:05

Aw bless. My niece used to say she was a horse, when she went for new shoes she stood with her back to the shop assistant and lifted up each hoof foot like a horse being shoed by a farrier. But she was four at the time and is now a fully grown adult female human. She knew she was not really a horse , but had a vivid imagination.

BiologicalRobot · 18/04/2025 17:04

BigHeadBertha · 18/04/2025 16:59

I'd encourage anyone who doesn't know any transpeople well or hasn't read a lot about their experience, as well as the many ways someone's gender and sex can fail to line up with each other well, to realize that you don't know anything about it at all. Your opinions are based on ignorance.

Again, if your opinion is merely something you pulled out of your own bottom, with no education or personal knowledge of the actual issue, you should realize that's what it is and stop strongly and loudly defending it.

Loud stupidity is unappealing.

An intelligent person doesn't need this explained to them. Their first response, in the above situation, would be to say, "I don't know." Not, "My foolish and massive outrage is the same as actually knowing a thing about it. Here is a dim-witted cliche' to back that up!"

Doing this would hugely improve the world.

You're welcome.

Edited

Holds up a mirror

You're welcome.

Kucinghitam · 18/04/2025 17:03

It doesn't matter how sex and gender (personality) do or do not "line up" when the issue is single-sex spaces.

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 18/04/2025 17:03

Kucinghitam · 18/04/2025 16:47

Very well put, for any lurkers feeling puzzled by word-cloud obfuscation of gravity and biology.

Show quote history

I agree, and would like to add my fav:

How, in the flipping flip, did we all manage to make babies for hundreds of thousands of years, if M/F sex is so confusing? Did we all just run around bashing privates randomly into each other until whoops?

Anactor · 18/04/2025 17:03

user1492538376 · 18/04/2025 16:45

Gravity can be mathmatically modelled - it doesn’t work at extremes. I can tell you how fast I can fall off a building - but at micro scales it doesnt work. We don’t understand gravity fully. Only in the general sense.

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At this point I would refer you to Dr Johnson’s reply to Bishop Berkeley - with the addition that we may not understand gravity fully, but we absolutely do understand what happens if a big rock falls on our head from a great height.

We also have a general understanding of what a chair is, in case you’re yet another first year philosophy student.

Social construct is something that doesn’t have an objective existence. Rocks, gravity and sex have an objective existence. They don’t care what we think about them; they will exist and continue to exist however we define them.

spannasaurus · 18/04/2025 17:00

spannasaurus · 18/04/2025 16:57

The supreme court judgement was very important for transmen. It confirmed that they were covered by maternity and pregnancy protections in law. Had the judgement gone the other way and they were legally men then they would not have been

Just to add, the Scottish Government were well aware that transmen would lose maternity protections if they had won their case

BigHeadBertha · 18/04/2025 16:59

I'd encourage anyone who doesn't know any transpeople well or hasn't read a lot about their experience, as well as the many ways someone's gender and sex can fail to line up with each other well, to realize that you don't know anything about it at all. Your opinions are based on ignorance.

Again, if your opinion is merely something you pulled out of your own bottom, with no education or personal knowledge of the actual issue, you should realize that's what it is and stop strongly and loudly defending it.

Loud stupidity is unappealing.

An intelligent person doesn't need this explained to them. Their first response, in the above situation, would be to say, "I don't know." Not, "My foolish and massive outrage is the same as actually knowing a thing about it. Here is a dim-witted cliche' to back that up!"

Doing this would hugely improve the world.

You're welcome.

spannasaurus · 18/04/2025 16:57

The supreme court judgement was very important for transmen. It confirmed that they were covered by maternity and pregnancy protections in law. Had the judgement gone the other way and they were legally men then they would not have been

Waitwhat23 · 18/04/2025 16:55

Christ, even Mermaids dropped the whole 'born in the wrong body' woo in 2020. And they're proper true believers.

Recycled arguments, over and over again.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/04/2025 16:53

zackmills · 18/04/2025 16:50

I do feel sorry for those who are transgender. There is a focus here on trans women but trans men are in the same situation, they feel they were born in a body that doesn't match their brain.
Some of the females in this thread haven't thought through the effect of this supreme court ruling.

Trans men were born into a biological female body. Many trans men look like biological males, but they are not biological males. They will be welcome in women's safe spaces, as a result of being biologically female at birth. However you will judge them based on how they look and abuse them for being in biological born female changing rooms, despite the fact they will be complying with current society which dictates there are only 2 types of people, those born in one of the two biological sexes.

Therefore you still won't be happy, because you are now going to be reporting people who are doing nothing wrong and using the correct born biological sex changing rooms, toilets, and safe spaces yet do not 'look' how you expect them to. Maybe we should stop judging people by how they look or appear and instead look at their actions and intent of their actions.

Do you imagine you are the first person to have made this point today?