Not really. Gender used to only mean sex.

Some people have not realised that a group of people changed the meaning of the term to render it meaningless.

This is where some people’s lack of logical thinking leads them. And it is very common.

“So how are you going to determine someones sex in going to the toilet exactly. Based on how they look?”

People should know their sex. Except, of course, for those who believe in pseudo science or flawed theories and want to recategorise themselves according to these falsities.

‘You’ , as in society, has already determined that people who are female should go into female toilets. Did you hear the news from the Supreme Court? It has already been determined and it hasn’t changed for decades.

So, your question about determining who enters based on looks is nonsensical when you consider it. If someone isn’t female, and the space is designated female single sex, then it is already determined that they should not be accessing it.

How telling they use the word gender all the way through then.

Well you can disbelieve objective, provable reality as much as you like; it's not dependent on how you feel about it. That's why it's objective and provable.

However, if we're talking about beliefs, then from this post I don't believe you've ever been in a female changing room. You think only small, petite women get in there? And no butch women? Do you think we also have pillow fights in there?

As I think I've said before, nobody found the sex binary complicated when it was women who were being excluded from fully participating in society, and certainly nobody wondered how men would manage to keep women out of Parliament, universities, voting booths and so on. It's very interesting that it only becomes an incredibly difficult, complicated and 100% completely unenforceable concept when it's women trying to keep men out of female spaces. Still, if you don't believe in the sex binary and it is beyond your comprehension, there's a simple and obvious solution. We can have designated single sex spaces for men and women, and an additional mixed sex space for people like you who don't understand what the other ones are for. Then everyone gets the space that suits them and you don't have to worry your head about the difficult concept.

You're in favour of that, then, right?

It wasn't in this thread but I mentioned recently hearing a person in heels walking across a tiled floor behind me and knowing it was a man (in 'women's clothes', make-up and wig) before I saw him, just from the gait pattern.

How do you know they are not women? By what they look like? No one has answered this question. Tell me how you determine this when using a piblic toilet.

Which is kind of the point really. Gender exists, sex doesn’t. You don't know someone’s sex based on what they look
like.

I don’t think you understand the principles of reproduction or how reproductive capability via sex is expressed and embodied in humans.

We can tell by looking at you. Your gait, your size, your hands, your feet, your brow ridge, your Adam's apple, your smell, your voice, your hairline or wig — but most of all, we can spot your male entitlement.

Are you saying trans people will break the law anyway?

So you understand that there is a Patriarchy. Great!

And so you accept that somehow, somehow, even though male and female are just constraucts and sex is far too complicated for anyone to understand, the Patriachy somehow still managed to oppress people who pretty much align to the simplistic, everyday version of female. It wasn't great for men who had traits the Patriachy deems female either of course, but that was kind of a backwash from the devaluing of female people, and those men were still in much better places than the women.

So the 100 dollar question - given that Patriarchy did manage to oppress people based on the simplistic, everyday version of sex, why is it suddenly so very very unthinkable to now support those exact same people with the challenges that has brought?

Because Patriachy ain't gonna say "oh gosh sex is really complicated, I guess if we can't know with 100% accuracy who to disempower, marginalise, abuse and discrimate against we just stop Patriaching then". Patriachy will just keep right on oppressing the same people.

All you are doing with your clever "well actually..." and genes dancing on the head of a pin is taking away the rights and power of the people who Patriachy is somehow managing perfectly well to identify as women anyway to fight back.

So please do go ahead and continue to push for a world with subtle gradiation between the social contructs of Male and Female, but do me a favour? Wait until that is also how the Patriachy sees things before you start taking away the rights and recognition that the women who are only women in that cringingly naive, sex based, simplistic biological sense need to protect themselves against how Patriachy wants to treat them.

I mean, babies and children can do it, but maybe it’s a skill that is lost in adulthood:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6680589/#:~:text=Abstract,based%20upon%20differences%20in%20gender.

https://psychology.yale.edu/sites/default/files/files/Bui%2C%20Hong%20-%20Gender%20Categorization%20.pdf

(note both papers use the term “gender” however they specify that they mean the difference between men and women)

You are assuming that decent, law abiding, humans will purposely break the law by going into single sex spaces because..what ... they don't know what sex they are? If a person doesn't know their own biological sex then they need to see a doctor.

The ones who insist on going into the single sex spaces they are not legally allowed to use are the dangerous ones.

The issue isn’t about whether a trans woman looks like a woman. The point is that they shouldn’t be in women’s spaces because they are not women.

Can our Righteous friend just walk me through how we get from

Sex is a complex constellation of ineffable indefinability

to

Therefore male people are entitled to access female spaces

??

I did mention this yesterday, but sadly no education on this logical link was forthcoming.

Their babies are dropped into cabbage patches by storks and then the doctor assigns each one a sex and the magic gender fairy assigns them a gender, which may or may not match the sex. Nobody knows why the gender fairy doesn't simply assign a gender which matches the sex, the gender fairy (they/them/zir) is clearly a horrid little arsehole who hates trans people.

No one on this thread has yet to answer my question on how you determine someone’s sex by looking at them. Using a public toilet.

That’s because - you cant.

Assume I'm a slow learner. tell me again.

Weve covered this. Reproduction is only one aspect of sexual characteristics.

Oooooo are we getting near to sexual racists on the bingo card????

😂

Errrr. You may be socially conditioned but I am not.

@user1492538376 Well no because I don’t believe in binary male and female anyway.

So how do you think mammals reproduce?

So close to naming him for a bingo on my bingo card 🤐

No. I was responding to the poster on morality and the rule of law.

Is anyone suggesting that single sex spaces should be segregated by race?

I was going for more Nazi Germany, racial segregation in the US.

This ruling plays into the US playbook completely - and results in this.

www.nytimes.com/2025/04/07/us/politics/trans-student-arrest-bathroom-law-florida.html