Page 6 | At first I cheered, then I got angry at the years of bullying and misinformation women have been subjected to

IwantToRetire · 2025-04-16T18:32:15+00:00

*The Supreme Court has said the word sex in the EA means biology - fantastic! Credit due to FWS for persisting.* *But why did we need a court to say this?* Because TRAs have spent years spreading misleading information. So then you have to ask why, for instance, was Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre able to advertise a vacancy as being under the Single Sex Exemptions but appointed a man who self identified as a woman. None of the institutions in Scotland did anything to tell them they were breaking the law. Not funders, not politicians, not charity overseers - not even the organisation representing Rape Crisis Centres in Scotland. Is this a specifically Scottish problem? In other parts of the UK posts advertised using the SSE no other women's service provider has done this. (As far as we know). Some women's service providers only offer SS services, some offer SS Services and also trans services, which shows they know the law. And advertise accordingly ie whether SSE or transinclusive. When and who is going to investigate how those with power colluded to undermine the meaning of the SSE. And why Stonewall law was allowed or even promoted. And we know the poison of the misinformation has spread particularly in more social, informal settings across the UK, and even the right of lesbians to be lesbian ie same SEX attracted. But the added bonus of today's ruling is that with the judgement that sex is biological then the instance that the case was first started about, eg representation on boards, means companies can not include trans women to improve a companies SEX equality achievements. And also now women's sport, women's changing rooms, women's toilets, women's (Ladies?) pond, and .... are going to mean SEX based. So as I know there are many other threads celebrating the FWS [flowers]victory today, just wanted to ask how is it possible that so many people and institutions were so willing to accept the misrepresentation that women's rights were subservient to trans rights. And could this happen again?

TheOtherRaven · 17/04/2025 07:53

UnhappyAndYouKnowIt · 16/04/2025 23:53

I'm curious. What happens to organisations like Stonewall who have been giving advice that's inconsistent with the law?

Public, private and charitable sector organisations paid lots of money to Stonewall to make sure they were inclusive and had the right policies in place.

Now the organisations that followed Stonewall advice may face lawsuits and massive settlements. Would that make Stonewall liable for their costs?

As I remember when it came to it in court - was it Allison Bailey's case? - Stonewall explained that if their client chose not to check that what they'd said was right, it was nothing to do with them.

TheOtherRaven · 17/04/2025 07:52

It is very sad for politicians that we have all the receipts. All of them. The lot.

Buidheachas · 17/04/2025 07:51

It's amazing hearing the misogyny and lack of understanding from many journalists. John Sopel on the News Agents said twice that this only affects a small number of people. 51% of the population isn't small...

begone25 · 17/04/2025 07:45

Even the Economist has closed comments on its latest Instagram post!!! FFS Let women speak!

Sausagenbacon · 17/04/2025 07:10

Yes!
The coverage has driven me back to a place I thought I would I would never return.
Twitter.
The unalloyed joy of watching politicians tweet that that they have ALWAYS supported this, and have hundreds of replies calling them out, often with recordings of them saying the opposite, is wonderful.
Anas Sarwar, Harriet Harman and Bridget Phillipson are having their metaphorical arses handed to them on a plate at the moment. The insufferable Stella Creasey has made a statement saying that we should make it clear that we support trans rights, like the Head Girl she is. She's too cowardly to allow replies, but is still attracting adverse comments.
In my heart I know that Twitter is a Bad Thing, but, in these circumstances, with official media sources not doing their job, I'm very pleased it's around.

allstarsuperstar · 17/04/2025 02:36

And the misinformation is still happening, even today of all days. Just look at some of the crazy coverage from different broadcasters! So many sly, crooked journalists abound.

GreenUp · 17/04/2025 02:01

Waitwhat23 · 17/04/2025 00:34

Fuck yes.

And I'll add -

Shona Robison, Kirsty Blackman and the other foul SNP MSP's
Patrick Harvie, Lorna Slater, fucking Meep and the rest of the horrendous Scottish Grens
Alex Cole - Hamilton and the rest of the Scottish Lib Dems.
The National newspaper (pricks they are)

Oh, the list just goes on and on

Show quote history

Don't forget Kirsten Oswald, Kaukab Stewart and Alison Thewliss posing with that "decapitate TERFs" sign.

And why did Scottish police make no effort to arrest that person? If any other group were subject to incitement, I'm sure the police wouldn't have been so lax.

Original poster

IwantToRetire · 17/04/2025 01:14

In my OP I talked about all the institutions etc., who should have followed the law as published by Parliament, not the law of some money hustling who else can we get under our umbrella to help pay for our jobs.

But obviously the saddest part is those who infiltrated or "cuckooed" genuine women's groups to then use the group's status to permeate their TRA campaign.

And whose influence I suspect is still keeping other groups silent.

Remember that meeting some years ago when a lone woman challenged Nicola Sturgeon and no one in the audience (of members of women's groups) stood up for her, and slow clapped her out of the meeting.

And no doubt, not seen by us, many individual women have tried to challenge the trans narrative, but have been silenced or lost their jobs.

But in terms of responsibility, those in positions of power who failed to act when it was clear that the guidance in the EA from the SSE was not being followed, are to blame.

The could so easily, right at the start said, this is the law and you should follow it.

OP posts:

Megovy · 17/04/2025 00:55

So glad I’ve found this thread. This is exactly how I’m feeling. What next? Write to MPs and institutions mentioned here to ask what they will do to ensure they are compliant with the EA?

I’ve not been on MN for a while but I’ve been doing what I can elsewhere (extremely tiny in comparison to the numerous sheroes). I remember posters used to say HEEEEEEEAVE at what felt like continuous knock backs. I must confess, I was extremely pessimistic about what to expect from today’s ruling. I feel we (I) must follow up on this to ensure women’s rights are protected. Institutions have acted outside of the law for years at the expense of women, we must ensure that they follow the clarification the judges have provided.

Waitwhat23 · 17/04/2025 00:34

RoyalCorgi · 16/04/2025 19:45

I agree, OP. Having considered everything from all possible angles, and reflected on the moral imperative to magnanimous in victory, and Lord Hodge's injuncition that nobody should take a triumphalist position, I am ABSOLUTELY FUCKING FURIOUS.

I want people to be held accountable. Sturgeon. Chapman. Yousaf. Starmer. Harman. Nandy. The twats running Edinburgh Rape Crisis. The vice-chancellors of Sussex and the OU. The fuckwits at NHS Fife. West Yorkshire Police. The Green Party. Every last man and woman of them. The absolute lying, bullying, cowardly, hypocritcal shits. I want to see them sacked from their jobs and spending the rest of their miserable squalid lives in a prison cell, reflecting on the harm they've done. Fuck 'em. Fuck every single one of them.

Fuck yes.

And I'll add -

Shona Robison, Kirsty Blackman and the other foul SNP MSP's
Patrick Harvie, Lorna Slater, fucking Meep and the rest of the horrendous Scottish Grens
Alex Cole - Hamilton and the rest of the Scottish Lib Dems.
The National newspaper (pricks they are)

Oh, the list just goes on and on

GCAcademic · 17/04/2025 00:01

UnhappyAndYouKnowIt · 16/04/2025 23:53

I'm curious. What happens to organisations like Stonewall who have been giving advice that's inconsistent with the law?

Public, private and charitable sector organisations paid lots of money to Stonewall to make sure they were inclusive and had the right policies in place.

Now the organisations that followed Stonewall advice may face lawsuits and massive settlements. Would that make Stonewall liable for their costs?

I asked this question on another thread today. I hope that Stonewall face the consequences of this. Those consequences would be financially ruinous for them. Not just the lawsuits but all the other remedial actions that will be needed in hundreds of organisations across the country. Buildings have gone up across my university's campus that have facilities that are illegal thanks to Stonewall. It's going to cost an awful lot of money to turn those fake women's (and men's) toilets into the unisex toilets they actually are, so that they are compliant with HSE regulations.

UnhappyAndYouKnowIt · 16/04/2025 23:53

I'm curious. What happens to organisations like Stonewall who have been giving advice that's inconsistent with the law?

Public, private and charitable sector organisations paid lots of money to Stonewall to make sure they were inclusive and had the right policies in place.

Now the organisations that followed Stonewall advice may face lawsuits and massive settlements. Would that make Stonewall liable for their costs?

Skyellaskerry · 16/04/2025 23:21

Yes a lot to be angry about.

Workplaces that define lesbians as same sex or gender attracted, and being scared of speaking out to try to correct this, and then feeling ashamed of being afraid to challenge openly.

That Stonewall Law was allowed to become seen as being right, and this spreading and being cut and pasted to private and public workplaces alike.

That the Labour Party weasel worded single sex into “safe spaces for women” - why was that???

Just 3 off the top of my head thoughts - there’s built up and justified anger, unsurprisingly really.

Appalonia · 16/04/2025 22:29

It's like a collective madness took over. And the institutions that SHOULD have stood up for truth and reality just...didnt. The police, journalists calling violent men women, the fucking judiciary . And worst of all the NHS, where biological sex matters more than anywhere else! I'd love to see a public inquiry into how this all happened.

And, don't EVER forget the politicians...

At first I cheered, then I got angry at the years of bullying and misinformation women have been subjected to

SummerDaysOnTheWay · 16/04/2025 22:10

Perkuppaige · 16/04/2025 19:40

Agree OP.

All I kept thinking today was how did this even happen, how did we even get here? It’s almost surreal.

Completely fucking nuts.

ResisterOfTwaddleRex · 16/04/2025 21:58

Thank you for this thread OP. I agree. It’s a broadly good outcome - for now. Long term, we have to repeal the GRA and PC of GR. But the sheer amount of vitriol we’ve had to endure. The job losses. The capture of almost every public and private sector organisation. The near-total erosion of safeguarding of children and vulnerable adults…this can’t be glossed over. People have to be held to account.

“This isn’t over yet”, as some wise women sung just earlier today.

Projectme · 16/04/2025 21:55

RoyalCorgi · 16/04/2025 19:45

I agree, OP. Having considered everything from all possible angles, and reflected on the moral imperative to magnanimous in victory, and Lord Hodge's injuncition that nobody should take a triumphalist position, I am ABSOLUTELY FUCKING FURIOUS.

I want people to be held accountable. Sturgeon. Chapman. Yousaf. Starmer. Harman. Nandy. The twats running Edinburgh Rape Crisis. The vice-chancellors of Sussex and the OU. The fuckwits at NHS Fife. West Yorkshire Police. The Green Party. Every last man and woman of them. The absolute lying, bullying, cowardly, hypocritcal shits. I want to see them sacked from their jobs and spending the rest of their miserable squalid lives in a prison cell, reflecting on the harm they've done. Fuck 'em. Fuck every single one of them.

And add the unions to this list too 🤬

Edit: typo

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 16/04/2025 21:33

What infuriated me is all the males giving up women’s rights at no cost to themselves and then congratulating themselves on how liberal they were.

The level of misogyny was staggering from people who saw themselves as liberal and fair. They really did see half the population’s rights as conditional on not inconveniencing what men wanted.

Grammarnut · 16/04/2025 21:32

I tried to raise this point re toilets in local museum and did not even get a reply. If pressed they say, but CCTV. Is anyone watching it all the time? Of course not. And CCTV doesn't cover someone collapsing in a locked compartment.

Grammarnut · 16/04/2025 21:27

I understand the LibDems (they are still shabby) because they are classical liberals (and economic neo-liberals) so consider that government should not interfere in private lives and that people should live how they wish without interference. Unfortunately it has not filtered through to them that women are people too!

HaveYouActuallyDoneAnyWashingThisWeekMum · 16/04/2025 21:09

Great thread. Thanks for starting it.

OutandAboutMum1821 · 16/04/2025 20:46

Sortumn · 16/04/2025 20:32

I was recently in a public loo where an elderly woman, possibly a bit confused and couldn't understand how to open it was locked in the cubicle. The cubicle door reached the floor and possibly the ceiling (it was a very high ceilinged building so I can't remember if it went all the way up or was just very tall).
Her very elderly husband with his walking frame was outside on the foyer worrying about her while people tried to help.
The design of the cubicle made it pretty impossible for people to do anything from the outside, other than try to instruct her on how to open the door.
I don't know how it was resolved.

Edited

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Ahh that poor lady, and her DH, that’s really worrying 🥲

LizzieSiddal · 16/04/2025 20:37

Agree with you all. It’s absolutely infuriating that women( and some men!) have had to waste time, energy and money fighting for what was the law all along.

Is anyone going to apologies?!

Sortumn · 16/04/2025 20:32

Keeptoiletssafe · 16/04/2025 20:09

Yes if you advanced search my name you will find long posts (!) of research but it boils down to public toilets and school single sex toilets used to have gaps at the bottom and top of doors. They were there for health and safety. I saved the life once of a young woman whose blue hand was sticking out of the gap. Recently, these door gaps have disappeared. Gender neutral/mixed sex/unisex don’t have them because of privacy. Even single sex toilets in secondary schools now have only a 5mm gap. I have researched and found no one has realised the impact this has had because the whole emphasis has been on privacy. In the DfE secondary school toilet design section they mention privacy multiple times and safety none. The DfE have no records of equality and impact assessments for the private designs in 2023 document and referred me back to 1974 for healthy and safety.

Show quote history

I was recently in a public loo where an elderly woman, possibly a bit confused and couldn't understand how to open it was locked in the cubicle. The cubicle door reached the floor and possibly the ceiling (it was a very high ceilinged building so I can't remember if it went all the way up or was just very tall).
Her very elderly husband with his walking frame was outside on the foyer worrying about her while people tried to help.
The design of the cubicle made it pretty impossible for people to do anything from the outside, other than try to instruct her on how to open the door.
I don't know how it was resolved.

OutandAboutMum1821 · 16/04/2025 20:25

Keeptoiletssafe · 16/04/2025 20:09

Yes if you advanced search my name you will find long posts (!) of research but it boils down to public toilets and school single sex toilets used to have gaps at the bottom and top of doors. They were there for health and safety. I saved the life once of a young woman whose blue hand was sticking out of the gap. Recently, these door gaps have disappeared. Gender neutral/mixed sex/unisex don’t have them because of privacy. Even single sex toilets in secondary schools now have only a 5mm gap. I have researched and found no one has realised the impact this has had because the whole emphasis has been on privacy. In the DfE secondary school toilet design section they mention privacy multiple times and safety none. The DfE have no records of equality and impact assessments for the private designs in 2023 document and referred me back to 1974 for healthy and safety.

Show quote history

Thank you for taking the time to reply and explain.

That actually makes a lot of sense. That’s amazing you saved someone’s life, and yes I can see how anybody who happened to collapse/have a heart attack, etc could therefore be at risk without that gap. Also somebody who was trapped in there with someone robbing/attacking them, etc.

It’s a really important point, excellent work raising awareness of it.