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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Thank you MNHQ

315 replies

Blistory · 16/04/2025 15:20

I don't post much on here anymore but just wanted to take a moment today to thank Mumsnet @MNHQ and Justine in particular for standing strong over a considerable number of years.

I fully appreciate that not all Mumsnet members or employees held the same beliefs but in the fury of doxing, banning, and insults, MNHQ held the line to enable this space where women were able to have a discussion.

I know the arguments and concerns over the years but the fact is that this was the only public space for a considerable number of years where a conversation was allowed about what came to be known as gender critical concerns.

This was where women came to gather, to discuss, to learn, to be heard, to form new spaces, to support and to stand strong. It wasn't always a pleasant place to be but it was always a place that was allowed to exist. It stood against the pressure groups, the hate, the doxxing, the pressure of advertisers, Stonewall law and it did so by simply being allowed to exist. The women on here and in the wider world did the rest. It's easy to forget just how difficult it was for MNHQ to hold the line especially when being attacked by all sides.

Thank you.

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6
teksquad · 18/04/2025 15:05

JustineMumsnet · 17/04/2025 07:51

Thanks all – I really appreciate the appreciation. It’s been severely testing at times – there were moments I genuinely thought we might never see the tide turn, or at least not in our generation. And in the meantime, Mumsnet risked being permanently labelled as bigoted, vicious, and ‘on the wrong side of history’.

A fair number of organisations pulled their advertising under pressure from activists – both internal and external. I’m sure there were many more we never heard from who simply steered clear. Commercial partnerships became noticeably harder to secure. The low point was discovering we’d been blacklisted on instruction from the top brass at Barclays – just weeks before their CEO resigned over concealing ties to Jeffrey Epstein.

When we included a call to clarify the definition of sex in the Equality Act in our 2024 Mumsnet Manifesto, Ocado – who had been excited about a partnership – abruptly pulled out, citing Mumsnet’s “hateful political views”. Despite repeated attempts to explain our position – as a platform committed to amplifying women’s voices – they’ve refused to speak to us ever since.

Nonetheless, even in the darkest moments, when I feared the site might not survive, we never considered banning discussion of this issue altogether. That would have been completely contrary to what Mumsnet is about: a space for mothers to talk about what matters to them. We’ve always believed in the power of respectful, open discussion – especially on difficult topics. And again and again, users have told us that Mumsnet has helped them change their minds, or at least understand a different point of view.

That spirit is what inspired our This Is My Child campaign back in 2013, prompted by a thread where a mother described her own child’s disruptive behaviour – and then explained he had additional needs, and what it was like to parent under constant public judgment. The discussion that followed was one of the most powerful we’ve hosted – and helped many people see things differently.

On the issue of women’s rights, I know some felt we policed conversations too tightly at times. But please remember the pressure we were under. A single sentence, taken out of context and amplified by activists on social media, could result in advertisers – already jittery, particularly during Covid – disappearing overnight and without the advertising we simply cannot cover our running costs and the site would have folded. We were also aware that some activists, posing as users, were deliberately trying to bait others into saying something that could be used to damage us.

So a big well done to everyone on here who played a part in securing what I think most would agree is much-needed clarity in the Equality Act. As ever, we’re in awe of the intelligence, tenacity and resilience of Mumsnet users.

Thankyou for now speaking so openly and honestly Justine, and respect for how difficult it has been.

DarkForces · 18/04/2025 14:57

Thank you. I've learnt so much on this site. You've been amazing

lifeinthelastlane · 18/04/2025 14:56

Agreed
has been a great place to share knowledge, learn more and develop opinions.

arethereanyleftatall · 18/04/2025 14:45

Totally agree. Thank you Mumsnet. With this whole debacle over the past few years, in the face of what seemed at first like no one else agreeing with me, I kept second guessing myself ‘maybe I’m wrong and sex doesn’t matter’ but mumsnet, with it’s so many articulate, intelligent posters, kept me sane. And, now it seems, everybody was always on the same page, but just didn’t dare voice it. Bonkers times.

Motnight · 18/04/2025 14:42

Thank you @JustineMumsnet and Mumsnet and all the amazing women posting on this site about women's rights.

Leafstamp · 18/04/2025 14:35

I just want to add my thanks to @mnhq and @JustineMumsnet

It was here that I learnt what was going on - about 5 years ago. Without mumsnet I'm not sure I would have gone on to get properly involved in fighting for women's rights and safeguarding of children.

Thank you also to the wise MNetters themselves who freely give their advice and support to women here.

Nightingalenight · 18/04/2025 14:30

Thank you @JustineMumsnet and all the FWR posters who have made the last few years less grindingly lonely. I have fled to the FWR board so many times, to find company and the arguments which helped me understand I wasn’t going mad.

I wish I’d realised how difficult it must have been to keep advertisers onside - the FWR segregation and the deletions and the language checks were worth it, because now, thanks to all the women who could continue to gather here, who could support each other and raise money for the seemingly endless court cases (truly, an extra tax on women), my sex category is protected in law - I know it’s absurd that it needed to happen but I feel secure, for the first time in years, now MY OWN rights have been confirmed.

Thank you for holding the line.

BiologicalRobot · 18/04/2025 14:06

Another person who came from Google about cats, stayed for the AIBU arguments, joined in the Relationship abuse ltb before actually realising I was also in an abusive marriage, now on the pathway to freedom, all before finding the "hidden" Feminism board. I was very confused as my reality was different to what they were saying, surely TWAW because otherwise they were liars, backed by bigger lying organisations. Then I had a light bulb moment. Women were being gaslit and abused physically, mentally, emotionally by (mostly) men on a massive, global, scale. Thank you Justine for having that board. I have learnt so much from all the wise women who post there, past and present ❤Flowers

Pluvia · 18/04/2025 13:56

I only used Ocado a couple of occasions during lockdown but they continue to email me and I have just phoned them and asked to close my account and delete all my details and explained why.

BottleBlondeMachiavelli · 18/04/2025 13:40

theilltemperedqueenofspacetime · 16/04/2025 22:34

I recently found out that Justine is the only person in the UK to have been 'SWATTED'. Respect.

I’m pretty sure SolidGoldBrass (??) was too on the same occasion, but yes it’s been a fun few years for Justine.

MrsPeterHarris · 18/04/2025 13:35

GetDressedYouMerryGentlemen · 18/04/2025 11:44

@SusanSmithFWS a massive thank you to all that has been achieved by FWS. You are mighty warriors and I want to thank you with every fibre of my being for fighting this fight. We are women, thanks to our biology; no more, no less and thanks to FWS we can define who we are which means we can secure our rights. You made me weep with relief when I heard the judgement. Boring old biology trumps all the feelz. Thank you and thanks again @JustineMumsnet for giving us a space to talk about our rights and our needs.

Completely agree - I also wept, especially when the singing was so loud! Massive massive thank you @SusanSmithFWS and your brave warrior ladies. You are all amazing. A million trillion thank yous! There are no words to say to each of you how grateful I am. xx

FatherFrosty · 18/04/2025 13:29

I cannot write anything more profound than has already been written. @JustineMumsnet and @SusanSmithFWS

thank you for your tenacity and sheer courage

on behalf of me and my daughter.

truly. Thank you

MrsMappFlint · 18/04/2025 13:07

SidewaysOtter · 18/04/2025 12:40

They have indeed apologised. It’s all a bit weaselly and begrudging (and I don’t buy the “a rogue contractor did it”) but it’s an apology nonetheless:

x.com/ocado/status/1913185791271903512?s=46

If they mean their apology, let's see their apology to Mumsnet and let's see them enter into an advertising contract. @JustineMumsnet will you let us know if they approach you, cap in hand.

Until I see that, they won't get one more penny out of me.

MrsMappFlint · 18/04/2025 13:04

Just emailed them asking them to delete my account.

Thank you, Mumsnet.

Paddingtonsmarmaladesandwiches · 18/04/2025 13:00

SusanSmithFWS · 18/04/2025 11:35

Dear @JustineMumsnet,
Thank you so very much for everything. But for Mumsnet, we would never have come together. I'm not on so much these days, but the women here gave me courage and focus in those early days. They have also been some of our fiercest supporters, morally and financially. I hope you feel vindicated and I hope you get some well deserved apologies (and more ad revenue!)
Lots of Love from all at FWS x

@SusanSmithFWS @JustineMumsnet I have been so emotional since the judgement. I too don’t think I’d ever see the tide turn. I’m so immensely grateful for your courage and determination. Thank you. Never been so proud to be a Scottish woman. The press coverage has been mixed at best but I’m stunned at how many women and men were oblivious to all this. They can’t say that now. Ocado delivers M&S food orders and I bloody can’t wait to see if they’ll still allow men in women’s changing rooms. Jobs not done. #womenwontwheest

onlytherain · 18/04/2025 12:57

Thank you @JustineMumsnet. I have learned so much from these boards and they have made me braver. I work in a captured industry, but I am trying to speak up as much as a I can. Yesterday's judgement makes that feel a little easier.

Mumsnet played a big part in bringing that judgement about and will go down in history as one of the key organisations that bravely stood up for women's rights, for the rights of children with additional needs, for the rights of those who suffered trauma, for free speech and for science. That wasn't easy.

Thank you for being brave!

yetanotherusernameAgain · 18/04/2025 12:56

"Temporary contractor" doesn't necessarily mean a junior member of staff. Some of ours cost £1k per day.

mrshoho · 18/04/2025 12:55

And does this mean Ocado will indeed be partnering with Mumsnet? I think some serious grovelling and improved terms for MN is in order!

Datun · 18/04/2025 12:52

SidewaysOtter · 18/04/2025 12:40

They have indeed apologised. It’s all a bit weaselly and begrudging (and I don’t buy the “a rogue contractor did it”) but it’s an apology nonetheless:

x.com/ocado/status/1913185791271903512?s=46

But Justine said they have repeatedly ignored all her phone calls.

I'd like her to confirm that they've picked up the damn phone and said sorry in person. Not hidden behind a post on Twitter. And blaming the mythical intern, sorry...temporary contractor.

JulesJules · 18/04/2025 12:51

I'm extremely doubtful that a "temporary contractor" had the power to withdraw Ocado from a collaboration with Mumsnet and then ensure that they refused to speak to them ever since 🤔

DontStopMe · 18/04/2025 12:45

SidewaysOtter · 18/04/2025 12:40

They have indeed apologised. It’s all a bit weaselly and begrudging (and I don’t buy the “a rogue contractor did it”) but it’s an apology nonetheless:

x.com/ocado/status/1913185791271903512?s=46

"A big boy did it and ran away"

SidewaysOtter · 18/04/2025 12:40

They have indeed apologised. It’s all a bit weaselly and begrudging (and I don’t buy the “a rogue contractor did it”) but it’s an apology nonetheless:

x.com/ocado/status/1913185791271903512?s=46

Datun · 18/04/2025 12:33

TanteRose · 18/04/2025 12:18

Thanks @JustineMumsnet
and thanks @SusanSmithFWS

by the way, re: Ocado, Sonia Sodha just contacted them and got this reply

https://x.com/soniasodha/status/1913182381101510985?s=46&t=DYMVYhEoGD6kTaKmo-0O8Q

Ha!

I'd like to see their actual apology, directly to Justine.

she's gonna have to charge tickets for the right side of history, she'll make millions

Ariana12 · 18/04/2025 12:25

JustineMumsnet · 17/04/2025 07:51

Thanks all – I really appreciate the appreciation. It’s been severely testing at times – there were moments I genuinely thought we might never see the tide turn, or at least not in our generation. And in the meantime, Mumsnet risked being permanently labelled as bigoted, vicious, and ‘on the wrong side of history’.

A fair number of organisations pulled their advertising under pressure from activists – both internal and external. I’m sure there were many more we never heard from who simply steered clear. Commercial partnerships became noticeably harder to secure. The low point was discovering we’d been blacklisted on instruction from the top brass at Barclays – just weeks before their CEO resigned over concealing ties to Jeffrey Epstein.

When we included a call to clarify the definition of sex in the Equality Act in our 2024 Mumsnet Manifesto, Ocado – who had been excited about a partnership – abruptly pulled out, citing Mumsnet’s “hateful political views”. Despite repeated attempts to explain our position – as a platform committed to amplifying women’s voices – they’ve refused to speak to us ever since.

Nonetheless, even in the darkest moments, when I feared the site might not survive, we never considered banning discussion of this issue altogether. That would have been completely contrary to what Mumsnet is about: a space for mothers to talk about what matters to them. We’ve always believed in the power of respectful, open discussion – especially on difficult topics. And again and again, users have told us that Mumsnet has helped them change their minds, or at least understand a different point of view.

That spirit is what inspired our This Is My Child campaign back in 2013, prompted by a thread where a mother described her own child’s disruptive behaviour – and then explained he had additional needs, and what it was like to parent under constant public judgment. The discussion that followed was one of the most powerful we’ve hosted – and helped many people see things differently.

On the issue of women’s rights, I know some felt we policed conversations too tightly at times. But please remember the pressure we were under. A single sentence, taken out of context and amplified by activists on social media, could result in advertisers – already jittery, particularly during Covid – disappearing overnight and without the advertising we simply cannot cover our running costs and the site would have folded. We were also aware that some activists, posing as users, were deliberately trying to bait others into saying something that could be used to damage us.

So a big well done to everyone on here who played a part in securing what I think most would agree is much-needed clarity in the Equality Act. As ever, we’re in awe of the intelligence, tenacity and resilience of Mumsnet users.

I am so grateful that Justine and Munsnet have stood up for women and girls. This has been such a surreal time to live through. 21 years ago we were told that the Gender Recognition Act would just allow a tiny number of dysphoric men quietly to live undetected as "women" and it was all about how they would be so invisible that it would be cruel to out them. Then we got the Equality Act 15 years ago that gave protection from discrimination and harassment to this " very tiny minority" of mostly men as they were undergoing their gender reassignment process and becoming invisible women. And we were told repeatedly that we shouldn't question any of this because it wouldn't affect anyone else. Yes it was a legal fiction but it would only affect this invisible tiny minority. And then the implications became clearer and clearer. Every aspect of all our lives - down to everytime we fill out a form asking for our gender, or the pronoun game, or data collection, or single-sex spaces: hospital wards, cha ging rooms, toilets, prisons, hostels; or sports opportunities for women and girls, or other opportunities specially for women and girls like gettimg equality on Boards. or access to training. And and and.. Worse than anything, those of us who just wanted to ask questions and express doubts being silenced and vilified. After all less than 5 years ago Maya Forstater was told by a tribunal judge that her view that sex is immutable and that sometimes matter - was " unworthy of respect in a civilised society". We're puling ourselves through. But a lot of people, especially women, have been very hurt very damaged in the process. And you can also argue that for "trans" people rights based on lies and coercion are not rights at all.

So thank you Justine!

GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder · 18/04/2025 12:24

Justme56 · 18/04/2025 12:21

Saw it on X

Well! The ripple effect of the UKSC continues to hit spots I never thought possible.

whodathunkit?

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